Hi Yotam,

Thanks. I never should have used that story in the first place. I am going to come back later with as thorough and precise an examination of what my overall AQAL ( in this order -cultural, individual, social, physical) point. Which is simply, our American culture has a "sickness" (or problem, or difficulty, or challenge, or a "not-so-healthy-for-whole-spiral-of-evolution" -not nec. SD) and many are suffering from it. Particularly the young from the last two genertions now going into three.

Also, remember, (or look back) I didn't say this (particular story) was really a stage thing -as in overall stage -I said this was a line thing. Or stage in a line.

The moral line asks and/or answers the question What should I do?

I just think there are millions of people out there (and literally hundreds that I know) who are constntly finding themsevels in situations and literally can not answer that question properly.

All for now.

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"With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
. . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
"You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
-Constantin Stanislavsky

timelody:

The moral line asks and/or answers the question What should I do?

I just think there are millions of people out there (and literally hundreds that I know) who are constntly finding themsevels in situations and literally can not answer that question properly.

Absolutely. And this is where the integrally informing people part comes in. A good support for interiors to balance the exterior methods of contraception would is desperately needed to help those millions. And then there remains the question of what LR laws should be in place creating and limiting the possibilities available to them. This is the part I, for one, don't see a clear answer to yet.

Yotam, you just stated my case so clearly it gave me goose bumps!

Let's just say we are on the exact same page here and try once again to move in a direction as free from emotions as possible.

But again, I'm serious. As I even kind of said early at the beginning of the original post with that story, this is a really difficult subject not to begin going crazy over.

So, for me, a breather for now.

Peace and Thanks.

Tim

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"With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
. . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
"You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
-Constantin Stanislavsky

Hello All!

After thinking about this whole series of threads on controversey: guns, abortions, gay marriage, capital punishment, beastiality (oh wait, I think that I'm the only one interested in that one) that really there is not one correct 2nd tier answer to any of these topics.

As nice as it would be to have a 2nd tier agenda or platform to run on in the 2024 political races, I don't think that there is a clear answer we can all stand behind.

Whereas the 1st tier memes are all absolutely sure of their positions, Yes or No. I believe 2nd tier positions must unfortunaetly be Yes & No. Unfortunately in that there is not a single easily understood message that we can stand behind.  Except for the framework of course. Or maybe "We are all Right, partially" But that's just not as sexy sounding as:

"Integral Institute, Either you are for us or your with the terrorists"

So the refreshing thing that 2nd tier does offer us is the ability to discuss and debate, often heatedly very very controversial ideas, AND have the debate using the same general terminology. No blue meme terms vs. green meme debate on abortion. So when we disagree we can at least hear each other, we are not talking over each others heads (unless your talking to me, then you are probably always over my head)

Also, since we share a 2nd tier space, we can bitterly disagree and yet our higher agreement/resonance, which transcends and includes the specific issues (abortion, guns, sex w/animals, J/K) is to the framework and the 2nd tier view.

This should hopefully allow us to eventually hash out some of these very contentious issues slowly over time, free from 1st tier constraints and move the debate forward.

However I have a suspiscion that most of these "issues" are never solved in 2nd tier, but only managed.  And only solved in 3rd tier + awareness, where the issues dissolve into Godhead, only to be debated again in the lower tiers.

With Love

Benji
 

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"Should it matter that my mind won't fit back in my head" -S. Davis

I imagine my master would say “There is an answer.  It can easily be solved.  No problem can be solved at the level of the problem; therefore if we raise our view the answer is simple.”

What can be done, needs to be done and ultimately will be done until it can no longer be done.  This applies to all actions at a higher level where all actions have no value but only consequence.  At the level of cause and effect, the game of life continuously is played out, the difference between 2nd tier and 1st tier is that one is aware of this fact and the other often tries either magically escaping or fighting with the effects of one's actions.

In case of abortion, it is an action of elimination.  It needs to be taken responsibly.  This is true for all actions from a 2nd tier perspective.  That is true for killing of any kind.  To some degree killing is not an option at the 2nd tier.  One does not run away from the reality that one creates for oneself.  It is simply silly.  There are no mistakes. Now, if you can and need to abort your pregnancy, then you will and hopefully learn from its consequences.  Also, if you live in a "blue" world the consequences of your actions will of course be different than if you live in a "yellow" world and so on.  This also applies to your level of consciousness.

 

So, in other words I agree, there is no solution to 1st tier problems such as abortion, etc. in the 1st tier and in the 2nd tier they are easily solved because they are not a problem.  Second tier problems are just a bit more interesting.  Does anyone want to tackle them?

 

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Tony Bernardi

More self-preservation posting.  This thread holds far too much wonderful discussion to fall off the page into nowhere...

-Turtle