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Differentiating Quadrants vs. Quadrivia and why burn Burning Man?

Last post 11-03-2021, 6:38 PM by Vortex. 26 replies.
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  •  09-28-2021, 12:12 PM 9716

    Differentiating Quadrants vs. Quadrivia and why burn Burning Man?

    First of all, the quadrants/quadrivia arise together.  This is not a singular item which can be flattened into one quadrant; all four are happening simultaneously.  The individual aspects of a holon can be continuously divided into each of the four quadrants, while artifacts, such as money, are viewed in quadrivic relation to each of the four quadrants. 

    Quadrants vs. Quadrivia.
    A holon contains all four quadrants.  S/he has a personal identity, a culture they interact with, bodies which fit into the UR and how those bodies relate to each other, and to the world around them in the LR.  There is a faux pa in attempting to slam a holon, which has all four of these vital components, into a singular quadrant.  Technically one quadrant can't exist without all of the others, so this is one more negation to add to the list. 

    Quadrivia:  I love money as a perfect example of quadrivia, but I would like you to attempt to grapple with that yourself after I give you a more simplistic example (an example used by Ken to explain quadrivia to me) of the Mona Lisa.  This painting has no consciousness in and of itself, all the conscious effect it has upon the world comes from holons visiting and participating with this artifact, and how they do so.  An individual holon visits the painting, and has their specific experience with the masterpiece.  (e.g. everyone in the room feels the painting is looking individually at them)  This contains all four quadrants experiencing the painting in each zone as quadrivia.  To further the example of the Mona Lisa, a few years later you run into another individual who has also visited the painting.  This synchronicity adds an additional LL component, which is activated when they meet someone who has also seen the artifact, but in a different time, at the same place, they have their own unique relationship with the artifact.  Throughout all of this the painting, itself, has never made any direct action or injunction.

    What Ken extrapolated
    :  Quadrants tend to be flattened into the UL quadrant, while quadrivia, because this is consciousness being viewed through a muse which has no consciousness itself, like a dollar bill, tend to be classified into the UR quadrant.  Artifacts themselves, because the system component is more visible without the interiority, tend to be flattened into the LR quadrant.  The LL quadrant serves any community based needs.  Each of these qualities arises in ALL FOUR quadrants, or quadrivia.  I find it ironic that II has continued this common fallacy.

    The second matter is that of the levels scale.  I know that the spectrum is a little new for me too, but come on people, this isn't too far from SDi (and wow the writer's are at the top of the scale again!).  Ken came up with Transcend and Include, the least you could do would be to remember this simple rule.  Are you really going to make the same fallacy that I have seen SDi attendees make for the past 4 years?  We are rainbows.  Drop the ego, please.  Each of us endorse different parts of our vMEME stack to varying degrees.  Many 2nd tierers get very confused when they run into another individual who claims to be second tier, but endorses agentic instead of communal (I'm communal), and thus the communal person can not conceive how this self centered, political, agentic individual could possibly understand the calm and serenity of second tier.  We all endorse each line to varying degrees.  Focusing on the overall center of gravity is a good way to make oneself feel good and ignore one's shortcomings.  This is how one can segue into the potency of perspectives and lines, especially through the lens of integral calculus.

    IMHO - The first thing usually explained about AQAL is the quadrants, and then we move right into levels.  People get attached to the inherent (even if nested) Levels hierarchy.  They want to be as high on the scale as possible.  One also imagines that they, of course, have found all that there is to be found, so of course they are turquoise...  There couldn't be anything more left to learn, could there?  I mean all you have to do is meditate on a daily basis, right?  Sorry guys but Buddha said the "Middle Path" and he meant it.  I have seen too many people who are just as lost as any drug addict who meditate on a daily basis.  At least the drug addicts have the status quo telling them they are dealing with shadow, meditators get to fall in the trap of feeling justified at their complacency.

    What I see happening here is a fallacy which can be prevented by the simple act of delivering AQAL differently.  Instead of explaining levels second, explain levels last.  That way people have already incorporated lines, states and types and can bring that into their understanding of levels.  When you only have quadrants and levels to wrangle with, it is easy to put yourself at the top; if you have to deal with all five moving parts of AQAL, it is easier to not take the level thing so personally.  I have tried this several times, and it always leaves the listener without that, "elitist" taste in their mouth. The levels scale induces masculine competition.  The ironic egocentric recurrence of, "My altitude is bigger, higher, longer than your altitude..."  Come on guys, get some personal security here.  By diffusing the levels across all lines, states and types, the ego gets distracted enough to absorb IOS when the individual would have called it elitist with the traditional delivery. 

    Now, why on earth are you putting Burning Man at the "magenta" altitude?  This is the world's largest arts gathering!!!  The principles are based upon radical self reliance and Leave No Trace methodologies. It is also in a desert where the ecology is as big a factor as presentation.  Your art has to be able to survive 80+ mph dust storms and have no trace of the piece visible a week after you put up your piece. 

    Where does this judgment come from?  Only a handful of I-I employees, past and present, have ever visited the city.  Issues with some of these past employees is where all of II's issues with the burn stem from.  To communicate altitude and sum it up without involving anyone specifically, the reasoning comes from the 2nd chakra, not the 7th.  This drama also occurred years ago (before IN).  Burning Man is a place where this year 40k people said they were "going home" to Black Rock City.  The majority of the population comes from San Francisco.  Do you really feel that only people at the magic mythic level of consciousness got their sh*t together enough to create this endless list of jaw dropping pictures?

    I also don't think one can grapple with burning an effigy of one's Self till they do it.  The Mystery schools of Burning Man are revealed like all mystery schools: by being there and experiencing the depth of an environment and teaching.  I find Bardo inbetween the flames.  How many humans who have ever lived have looked into the heart of a fire and asked why they are alive?  The few exceptions are almost exclusively from this and the last century. 

    The final words from Ken W. to me as I left I-I was, "I think burning man is doing great things, burn on!"  The appearance of BM at the magentic altitude tells me that the II employees never actually checked with Ken, or the AQAL Kosher team on this copy. 

    I don't think anyone can understand the intricacies of a gifting economy until they have tangled with it a few times. Money is the sea in which we swim on a daily basis, and jumping out of this pond is nigh impossible without going to an alternative economy like BRC provides.  Anything which was brought to Burning Man was made by a participant, in their free time, to be given away or experienced at Burning Man.  Everyone buys or earns their ticket.  There are no free rides (only gifted ones).  If you see some picture of a super crazy flaming/glowing/flashing art installation, it got there because a person bought a $200+ ticket, and figured out every logistic and expense to make the art survives the environment and entertain passers by, day and night.  The only motivation to create their art and to spend so much of their free time was because they wanted to make this gift for the burn.  On an environmental line, Burning Man requires individuals to evolve their art projects to a turquoise level of consciousness, or it will simply and literally blow away.

    Cool Gifts:  Video on the nature of a gifting economy, soap that smells great and has embedded designs for this year.  Pressed soap dispenser with the BM logo pressed into the glass.  Stickers of all varieties. Refrigerator magnets.  A billet aluminum belt buckle with the BM logo carved into it.  Printed and published books, and a library.  5 newspapers published every day of the burn and at critical times throughout the rest of the year. has a free lecture series which they put on at the burn, and other sponsored locations, every year.  Google Earth created a special addition to their software just for the burn which was updated every day as the city grew.  This special feature from Google made it so we could navigate the city.  This was a gift to the burners who couldn't come to the city this year.  Private funding for a wireless internet cloud which covers the whole city via satellite.  I ask you, if this was at a magentic altitude, why does the event receive these accolades?  If your exposure to the burn was late at night on E!, that’s your problem, not mine.  Try Beyond Blackrock instead. The people who created those magentic level productions had charges pressed against them and have been asked never to return to the city.  Now all filming is registered. 

    Coolest things I saw/did:  Built a 30' radius 5v geodesic dome(  This housed Alex Grey's Chapel of Sacred Mirrors and 10'x20' prints of his Sacred Mirrors (  His Theologue painting is the placard for the Artery, which designates where each piece of art is going (decided via gps months before the event).  Ken Wilber quotes in the bathrooms. A hydraulically controlled propane powered flaming dragon w/ an egg which hatched on Sunday night.  Any participant could go up and control the propane releases with a handy dandy control panel.  When you enter the burn, they have what I call a "second tier speed bump."  The gate grew posts signs every 15 feet as you approach the city with inspiring quotes (usually people Ken quotes from) which set the tenor of the theme for that year's burn.  If you are reading each of these posts, one will naturally crawl along at around 10 mph, just slow enough to not kick up dust.  I made 300 rolls of sushi and ran around giving them away to loved ones and strangers.  I packed the world's largest kite away. This year they also made a couple world records this year. One for the most individuals blowing fire balls together at once, and another for the longest Chinese dragon ever.

    As one of the few individuals actually certified in Leave No Trace (, and now 4th year BM participant, I can tell you, this is the most complicated and complete cleanups for such a large gathering.  BM is light years ahead of any hippy festival I have gone to about their trash control and treatment of the facilities; "If it isn't from your body, don't put it in the potty."  You are responsible for the trash you create.  There is no comparison to the more well known Rainbow Family.  Last week I had a friend's birthday in the same woods as this years national rainbow gathering.  We had a permit for up to 75 people and a fire sculpture to keep us warm (  The rainbow family didn't even provide porta potties nor get permits.  They used the, "do first, ask forgiveness later" approach.  Egocentric altitude at best.  The BM organization has a 10 year long permit from the BLM with onsite inspections and the BLM present at every burn.  (They make buckets of money from us btw)

    I put this here to tease and tantalize you with what Black Rock City contains for any participant.  If you go to the burn, the altitude of the event will be your personal altitude.  If you are turquoise, you will walk around everywhere running into deep, spiritual people who you continually learn from.  You will be attracted to similar art, lectures, classes, etc.  If you are at the magentic center of gravity, you can find a whole bunch of techno and naked ladies/men and have the time of your life that way too.  You will experience exactly what you need to at the burn, the laws of Open Space apply.  This is not magic/mythic.  This is experiencing a way of living which is fundamentally different than the main stream culture.  As thus, is exceptionally difficult to relate the profound nature of the experience to someone who doesn't know any better, much less experienced something so profoundly different. 

    Loving Light

    IT is
    TI me

  •  10-01-2021, 10:50 AM 9968 in reply to 9716

    Re: Differentiating Quadrants vs. Quadrivia and why burn Burning Man?

    Hello Jkare,

    Congratulations on your first post on the Multiplex. And what a post! Certainly quite a lot to think about. Next time you might want to spread it over several posts. Wink [;)]

    What caught my eye was your comments on Burning Man. How I wish I'd been able to attend. Some day, some day...

    Initially when I saw BM placed at magenta I was a bit surprised as well, exactly for the reasons you mentioned. It does indeed have several second tier characteristics. On the other hand, isn't it exactly a characteristic of a second tier consciousness to be able to include and appreciate facets of all stages?

    Although I've never been at BM in person, I get the impression that much of its appeal is a manifestation of a healthy form of magenta:
    • The tribal feeling of togetherness
    • The almost magical atmosphere
    • Rituals, not least the Burning itself

    Of course not all magenta is healthy, not even at BM, and I'm sure you also have your fair share of stories about what you've seen in this regard.

    To conclude, my attempt at reconciling your perspective with the one presented at Holons News is to say that yes, Burning Man embodies second tier characteristics, yet it draws its magic from a healthy form of magenta.

    How does that sound to you?

    Janne Asmala
    [email protected]
  •  10-02-2021, 12:32 AM 9995 in reply to 9716

    Re: Differentiating Quadrants vs. Quadrivia and why burn Burning Man?

    To communicate altitude and sum it up without involving anyone specifically, the reasoning comes from the 2nd chakra, not the 7th.

    this makes me curious ... do you have a reference for this knowledge to me? it certainly would add my personal & network involved repertoire, i sense.

    btw. in this context of 7? chakra's
    a) is it correct to say the 4th is the axis, the 4room engine, where the other 6 ones are 2room/way engines?
    b) apart from the lineair aapproach, which is in the numbers ... there is a kind of radial approach by the VOW resonating couples: 1&7 , 2 &6 , 3&5 , 4&4 ; can you copy?
    c) there is a notion, an awareness about the so called A440 standardized frequency ... this being 8 point higher than the natural one of A432. are you familiar with those facts? Anyhow, the idea seems to be that the A440 was once introduced to comfort statesman in order to influence the out of natural & creative order human citizen.

    so far ...
    looking out for I-I-dialogues


    nb. as a matter of fact i am no member anymore - reason my state/statical boss sort of drYed me up and i am on a beige/purple interval surviving by burning up my skin to a pretty brunette .. in Holland Penn.. no ... holland/europe! so, i am practising (as many of you2/u2) the universal souldear without a gun but the mouth and (of-f-f-course) a website
    with some figures to be graphicalized to a graph as an image saying more that 1000 words ...
    ( i have an appointment with a judge - and am asking here for someone who is willing to exercise II & IONS & SDi and so on with the Dutch Stat of In(ter/tra/tro)dependency )
    just as a way of living the pivital ages - to gather ;-)) ::*:: }}*{{ s'ace - hiding for the rest of us (peter - simon/rock/pan, alain, [email protected], vishnu, ken-neth & (why not) Valum Votan2 ... & watering the oceans by NooZ::meditating windmills in the Northsea ...

    "Through the 28::7 T-T cosmogenesis of time, merge your mind into the ever-evolving higher conciousness of time!

    If there were not time, there would be no mind to become." - VV-Rinri-II
  •  10-14-2021, 4:16 PM 11156 in reply to 9716

    Re: Differentiating Quadrants vs. Quadrivia and why burn Burning Man?

    Now, why on earth are you putting Burning Man at the "magenta" altitude?  This is the world's largest arts gathering!!!

    I went to BM for the first time this year, and I was actually a bit surprised that it wasn't as second tier as I thought it would be. Of course, you can go to BM and experience it in a second tier way, in the sense that you are including healthy Magenta. The gifting economy is a good example -- second tier doesn't consider money or profit to be inherently bad, but a Magenta perspective does, because it really prevents a tribal community from forming. All things are held in common by the tribe in Magenta, and I see that as the spirit of the gifting economy. The most common type of spirituality at BM is definitely Magenta shamanism and visionary psychedelic drug use, which, like all 1st tier structures, frequently suffers from level absolutism -- they believe that their level is really the best or even the only valid structure. Ann Shulgin, for example, has said that part of the reason that spiritual traditions discourage drug use is because gurus would go out of business if people started using psychedelics on their own. And of course, attendees are strongly discouraged from bringing the outside world into BM.

    That said, I think the BM organization itself is probably second tier, because it seems like they are often in conflict with Magenta and Green absolutists. That by itself might be a good reason for integrally-aware people to attend -- just be prepared to be very, very inclusive of magenta if you do. I do think a number of attendees are or could be second tier, because the simple fact is that in our Orange/Green mainstream absolutist culture, family and community ties have really broken down. A reasonable point can be made that this is because Magenta has been excluded from our society. The problem is that they make this sensible observation, and then go immediately to level absolutism and we aren't allowed to even criticize unhealthy Magenta. From a level absolutist perspective, at least unhealthy Magenta is still Magenta, and we'll just put off fixing the unhealthy version until we've made Magenta the only worldview.

    I love the idea of an Integral theme camp though! With classes, workshops and guest speakers!
  •  10-23-2021, 4:24 PM 12177 in reply to 9995

    Pick your Purple

    You are asking a very tricky question.  Until we have some ways to measure in and out flows of subtle energies of the chakras, I feel this subject is purely conjecture.  Though fun!  It reminds me of the maxim, "The map is not the territory."  Each of these depictions is a map, and we don't have a good way to indicate the territory yet.  Each one of these answers is "right" in the appendix A fashion, but I don't know how to judge which interpretation is either more right or the most right. 

    First, I don't want to limit the number of interconnecting chakras.  We have had 7 identified within the body; but I have heard mentions of 8th and higher chakras.  I believe these would be nodal points which we can use with each other as specific types of mass conscious communication.  (e.g. identify location or mood)

    I have heard friends say they believe that all chakras are supposed to spin in a clockwise fashion. 
    I have seen systems that said that each chakra changes rotation and that men start clockwise at the root and women start counterclockwise at the root.  The second chakra would then spin counter clockwise for the men and clockwise for the women, on up each of our bodies.  As a result when you put two bodies together, they line up like a zipper. 

    Traditionaly each of the chakras is displayed with having a specific number of lotus petals.  Maybe this relates to the ins and outs that you speak of.

    I have also seen a lot of alignments music theory, which you allude to.  A440 I have always equated with guitar tuners, which use this tone to tune the A string.  If this is different than a natural A (A432) then that is news to me.  However if you look at chord music theory a number of interesting correlations start to fall out of both concepts.  There are 7 scale degrees in a major scale. also 7 chakras.   A traditional I chord would be made out of the root, 3rd and 5th scale degree.  A chakric synopsis of this would be the root, Self and emoting.  Then look at a major V chord or a V7 chord:  5th, 7th and 2nd scale degree.  With this you start at the throat with emoting, add in mind, then some sexuality.  Turn it into true love by adding the heart as the 7th note in the chord (for all you Jazz fans).  With this you have just created the most powerful musical motion known, a I-V-I motion.  This can be done on any major scale.  I prefer to hold on to the relativity of "Do" rather than a specific frequency like 440 Hz.

    If you want to investigate the properties of music on the mind (besides holosync which rocks!), I would reccomend researching modes.  These are different types of scales (eg the Dorian mode goes from D to D following the white keys on the piano) and how the Mixolidian mode was banned from composition in ancient greece because of its effect on the masses. 

    As I titled this note, pick your purple (SDi).  Each one of these magic/mythic interpretations is valid.  None of these systems are either wrong or more insightful than any other; each has their own merit.  I also don't feel as though attempting to draw this map is possible (at least any better than Alex Grey alread did).  Both Alex's pictures and my own conjectures are ultimately a map, not the territory; thus I find it difficult to probe into the function of my chakras at such a high level of detail. 

    Thank you for commenting

    IT is
    TI me

  •  10-23-2021, 11:52 PM 12290 in reply to 11156

    Dreamingone and MrTeaCup

    I am using this forum as a bit of a podium. A number of people in the boulder community have commented to me on this thread, but none have put their words here. As a result I am answering to everybody at the same time. My understanding from what staff members have told me is that Ken confirmed the copy on the site, and they asked if putting BM at Magenta is appropriate, he said not quite but to do so. The only reason I can rationalize that he did this is because he knew that I would start this thread and make these conversations open, while before these these monologues about the Integral Institute, the Integral altitude of consciousness and Burning Man were written solely to him. If this conversation is facilitated fully and openly, then maybe the members of II would have the fortitude to make the trip to the desert. I invite any and all of the local community to comment on this thread.

    MrTeaCup, I really like your analysis of the situation.  It is much easier to talk about this subject with people who have learned both operating systems, IOS and BURNOS.  My core objection to II putting Burning Man at the Magentic strata is the fact that no one who decided to post that there have been to the event.  I consider this a IMP zone 2 fallacy.  In my previous post I mentioned the map not being the territory; in this same way I object because no one who made the decision to put BM at the bottom of that scale has actually smelled playa, eaten playa, inhaled playa, found playa in your objects throughout the year you are away from that magical land an cherished the smell each time.  Realized that rain flies need to be ductaped to the tent to keep the playa dust out.  Walk out in the open into a situation where you can only see the white of dust around you, with perfectly flat ground. This is a great way to have that “gross experience of oneness with nature.”  That is supposed to physically occur in natural settings, right? One will absorb this dust to the point that you innovate to learn how to prevent the dust from burning your feet and cracking your skin.  The land has a pH of 12-14.  One burner I am friends with created a wonderful gift of spray bottles filled with vinegar to create a salt and neutralize the dust. In this small way she used her experience to make many peoples' lives that much more pleasant. It is common to start making a list about how you are going to make the next year better three days after arriving. 

    In this pattern the environment and ecology induce participants to learn. I have learned how geodesic domes function and how they distribute energy through the poles. I also learned how to make art that is strong enough to withstand the winds and be beautiful 24/7.  I have also failed at each of these things.  I learned a lot of lessons when I've made art that could have worked just fine in a gallery, but with the wind on the western slope of Colorado's mountains, I shattered most of 8 sheets of fiberglass and countless hours of work at our regional event.  I also picked up every shard. 

    This mechanism has, in my experience, induced participants to continuously work on doing a better job for the benefit of the community at whatever their role. Through this community I have created and experienced countless "Integral" situations. Possibly more than I have experienced with the integral community.  I have seen the most amazing settings as a result of the burning man community.  Going up to Strawberry hotsprings in Steamboat and spending Friday night spinning fire with my heart and brethren into the night, and the next night have a killer party with a fire sculpture sparking off into the mountain sky.  The music was incredible too, but the energetic core of the party comes from the trees which died to keep us warm. Understanding that sacrifice is a small aspect of the embrace of the bardo burning man events induce.  I have burned much more than just the Man, I have burned Buddha, chalices, windmills with my fears inside, and a phoenix which we didn't get to burn due to burn bans.

    Each of these events has created an interconnecting history of a world wide community.  Through the events and happenings. This mechanism and history induce excellence. Desire to have success within the community and earn respect because people appreciate your contribution and tell you so.

  •  10-24-2021, 8:02 PM 12419 in reply to 12290

    Get Gross, Stay Subtle, Be Causal

    "Get Gross, Stay Subtle, Be Causal" -Ryan Cone
    The burn is a peak state of grossness.  I usually have gray hair within 24 hours of arriving from the dust.  You have to manage your food, your water/electrolyte intake, and be fashionable the entire time.  The physical environment is extremely stressful.  This is the epitome of a desert; 100+F during the day, close to freezing at night.  You need sunglasses for the day and night because the dust doesn't stop because the sun went down.  Combine this with the art of packing and unpacking and keeping in the right clothing on at the burn, or lack thereof, can be quite a challenge. 
    Each year the theme changes and with these changes comes a new wave of art created for the event.  Sometimes art is reused, but often the popular pieces are improved from the previous year's design. It is common to providing situations which fall into both the overall and immediate theme.  Yes this is purple, but another citizen thought up the purple event that another participant is experiencing.  If this is some “trippy” el-wire/LED art project, the participant who made that piece learned and soldered all the wiring to facilitate this experience for you. Their learning to do this is the behavior that induces second tier, not the reaping the reward of the finished product of this work
    This is how I view, at a causal level, the type of spiritual building BM does.  Every amazing experience at the burn is provided by another.  To put it another way, one person makes a piece of art, which is then witnessed by participants at the festival.  This person has at the causally created these individuals' lives.  By making said piece of art, they have helped to create the I AMness of the participants.  This is how integral perspectives work, only on the playa there are enough people you can actually create some of the more elusive perspectival situations.  This is very different than a concert situation where the band, which is on stage, is the one shouldering the majority of the experience making responsibility. 

  •  10-24-2021, 8:07 PM 12420 in reply to 12290

    Spiraling the Burn

    I do feel that there is healthy magenta at the burn, but that is not where I feel the event finds its health.  I think it is from beige or something more along the IR range in the spectrum system.   The environment itself is what I think creates the health. 

    The first quote I remember from Ken was, "I spend most of my days at beige."  This quote has been instrumental, especially at my travels in Black Rock City.  There is nothing quite like disappearing into a dust storm, then have it pass only to find yourself surrounded by 50 people you couldn't see a moment before.  The other major beige component is the art of packing and unpacking.  Look at what we haul out there and get back!  Trash included.  My first year I looked into the distance one day and found watching this creation with a fire lit inside and each of these rocks rocking back and forth was a site to Witness. 

    The fire that burns the man is begun as the opening of the festival. Crimson Rose, the woman who lights the man (and someone who IN should really interview) takes a spiral cut mirror about 3' across and focuses the light from the sun to start the fire for the week. The fire is tended by citizens for the duration of the festival. This is where the event has picked its own purple ritual, and utilizes this structure to create the subtle energy for burn. I don't think it ever dawned on anyone that this was the only way to do it. I-I has it's own way to center participants and create subtle energy, I think both parties use the same universal elements to create this energy, there is no absolute methodology.

    The puple and red elements seem obvious to most, but I would like to mention the contained fury of Thunderdome and the beautiful violence that is contained within.  Citizens can settle disputes at the Thunderdome in all the argument's possible glory.  The aggression is either open with fists flying and both or all parties flying up and down off of the dome walls from rubber harnesses strapped to the ceiling and a crowd seven people deep cheering you on, hopefully of your loved ones, or the admission that the fight isn't worth it.  This is the pinnacle of masculine compassion, the violence doesn't happen elsewhere. If there is, rangers will intervene.

    As for blue/amber.  All levels of police force are present because this is on BLM land.  This means county through federal officers are present and with night vision.  There is also a police force of citizens of the burn called Rangers.  These individuals help in both emergency situations and regulating citizens by keeping them a safe distance away from the nearest exploding/burning object.  Most art doesn't need that type of assistance, but when it does, they are there.  This is only a short list of the functions they proudly serve.  They both put in extra work and reap extra benefits (private port-a-potties and hot showers!) for serving this function.  This is one specific role, there are a myriad of others.  I am a fire spinner, there are also installation artists, art car drivers, bartenders, DJs, mad engineers and scientists, healers of all types and varieties.  These roles are how I view citizens have naturally created healthy blue. 

    The orange comes in the performance and presentation.  The desire to make the absolute best experience for your other possible.  The desire to perform to one's peak at the present and still do better next year. The desire to create that sound that no one has heard, make the most amazing art car you could possibly imagine, to learn the move that you just saw that stranger perform.  One of the hardest questions for the burn is, “what do I want to give to other people?” How a person answers this tells much about them.
    The green elements are myriad.  I see this vMEME coming into play through the gifting economy, and the desire to help a fellow citizen out and give them what you have.  The green altitude is probably most poignant as you have everyone gathered around the Man to Witness the burn.  This is an event where people will shout, "I love you" and "I am you" and "good job!" into the night. 
    I am using SDi because of Grave's finding that if you have all first tier memes healthy and flushed out, then the yellow functionality which is created has 10x any of the first tier meme's efficiency. I see this efficiency in the postmodern money of the gift economy getting unused resources to unmet needs without money, nor need for trade/barter. I believe that a person will be at an altitude with their unique endorsements of the various altitudes, but that people tend to represent a given vMEME at a given moment in public.  A sociological perspective if you will.  I also read the excerpt and become furious at the implications of this text.  There are many references to culture specifically, and I believe that I have just demonstrated that each of the vMEMEs at BRC are active and thriving.  This therefore creates an integral atmosphere because of this inherent health. 
  •  10-24-2021, 8:57 PM 12435 in reply to 12290

    Does this description make sense to you?

    I would like to quote the altitudes portion of the newsletter:
    In Holons, we use Altitude as a measure of development in both culture and consciousness. A simple way to explain it is to say that Altitude indicates the degree of developmental unfolding of items such as complexity, consciousness, and the number of perspectives one can take. For example, in consciousness development as indicated below, one goes from the capacity to take only a 1st-person perspective, to also being able to take a 2nd-person perspective, to also being able to take a 3rd-person perspective, and so on. Thus, in this example, you can see that the capacity for love increases (from being able to love only me, to being able to love us, to being able to love all of us, to being able to love all sentient beings....). For convenience, Altitude follows the natural colors of the rainbow, so you'll often hear us refer to degree of development or degree of consciousness or degree of capacity to love, etc. by a particular color of the rainbow (as you will see below).

    The occasions in Culture by Altitude are placed on the rainbow in terms of the degree of complexity that they have. In order to communicate effectively, you have to be able to hit the same degree of complexity as the person or persons you’re speaking to. To not make an attempt to adjust your speech to another sentient being is mean, a form of subtle aggression. By learning to spot degree of complexity, you can more effectively communicate and enhance mutual understanding.

    If I understand this correctly, you are saying that 40k Americans plus their international counterparts do not understand how to create a culture which is above the Magentic altitude and consciousness as you describe it above?   I do not think that every person at the event is second tier, but it is one hell of a meeting ground.  The place has at least a green center of gravity.  Does I-I truly feel that all these people's capacity to love, as they return every year to give their time and efforts away and pay for it out of pocket, is truly at the Magentic altitude as described above? Or is this the a boomeritis example of the writer's bias as the “subtle form of aggression” mentioned? Because no one who put BM in the newsletter has been to the burn, I feel that this is absolutely the slight described. Are you really going to tell me that a bunch of people from San Francisco out in the desert are not full of Love? I believe that I have shown how each vMEME is healthy and active. We could do it in the spectrum system with lines and include Gebser's and Maslow's systems if I had more free time.

    I hope have not failed to communicate so completely that the only altitude of complexity II feels BM can achieve is Magenta. I assert that the burn, because of these healthy structures, is inherently second tier and a full spiral. Individuals who come to the burn experience the event at the altitude they are at and push their own memetic growth from one year to the next by attempting to “do it right” each time and each time being a partial success. Burning Man has picked its purple with purpose and intention.  Burning an effigy stores the symbology of the image and releases it when it is burned, whether that is a human form, windmills with your fears written inside, or Buddha; I have been able to put my stock into these pieces of art, and watch my atachment float off into the sky.  This is how I personaly pick my purple.  This an element which gives the event it's power. The rituals are centered in the present, not regarding past institutions, but attempting to set good intentions for the future. The same thing could be
    said for Big Mind.

    As I write this I am attempting to write about what potential could be found at the burn, the deep structures. How the environment and ecology induce growth from an experiential educational standpoint through the integral lens. Taking a snapshot of the spiral at the burn. There are many participants of the burn who are not second tier, but not all the people in any situation are second tier. Right now we're hoping for 5% in the majority of the population. Part of my assertion with the burn is that BRC contains a much higher percentage of second tier individuals than 5%. I believe this is one channel where much of the world's second tier community has decided to congregate. Not everyone can work for I-I. The event is also only as good as its constituents and this year it seems that more of the mainstream decided to end up in our lake bed. This is a strong reason I have advocated for I-I to go to the burn. Their contribution would be invaluable by helping to raise the consciousness in the city just that much more. There is a deep seated resistance to the idea. Many staffers have confessed a personal desire to go, but until there is some sort of public reprieve (and enough pay) it simply isn't happening. I challenge them to survive in the desert for a week.

    Until I-I creates Integral Naked Live @ BM There are a number of camps with good or highly amusing classes. and I've already mentioned what my camp from this year's recordings I do think that the burn is a wonderful breeding ground for second tier thought, and I hope to facilitate more second tier conversations on the desert and at community events.

    My suggestion of what to put in the Magenta region of the newsletter is the Trailer Park Boys. I hope no one thought this was an integral link... TV: Canadian TV Show Trailer Park Boys I know Oli didn't. It is, however, the most popular show in Canada. Each season of the show begins with the main characters getting out of prison and they go back into prison at the end of each season. This show is hilarious, but utterly magic/mythic power based. It is also a fictional comedy, not thousands of people's lives.

    Loving Light
    IT is
    TI me
  •  10-24-2021, 9:17 PM 12443 in reply to 12290

    Re: Dreamingone and MrTeaCup

    MrTeaCup, I really like your analysis of the situation.  It is much easier to talk about this subject with people who have learned both operating systems, IOS and BURNOS.  My core objection to II putting Burning Man at the Magentic strata is the fact that no one who decided to post that there have been to the event.  I consider this a IMP zone 2 fallacy.  In my previous post I mentioned the map not being the territory; in this same way I object because no one who made the decision to put BM at the bottom of that scale has actually smelled playa, eaten playa, inhaled playa, found playa in your objects throughout the year you are away from that magical land an cherished the smell each time.

    Thanks for reading what I wrote, jkare, and also for putting your heart and soul into those posts that you wrote. That passion really speaks to how BM makes up an integral part of your own Integral vision and how being a part of BRC transformed your consciousness. I would be saddened if you felt that anyone was trying to take that away from you by minimizing it or putting it at the "bottom" of the scale! Something so important should be given the respect it deserves. I think its important to remember that, for a second-tier consciousness, all kinds of experiences can inform a second-tier perspective, and just because Ken Wilber or I-I or anyone else decides that BM is Magenta doesn't mean you are wrong to think that its second tier, because, for you, it is second-tier. And when it comes down to your own experience, its your perspective that matters. I think that you are also completely right that other second-tier people can go to BM and experience something profound. The great thing about the zones is that a zone #2 LL observation can be completely valid, and a seemingly contradictory zone #1 UL experience can both be true. But one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people go to BM, but not all of them have a second-tier experience -- they may have a very meaningful experience, even a profoundly gross, subtle, causal or even non-dual experience, but just that by itself is not enough to qualify as Integral.

    The great thing about BM, though, is that there are a lot of Green people who go there to get back in touch with Magenta, and sometimes they have profound experiences while there. That kind of experience can really help them get up to second-tier, and that's why I think its important for I-I to set up a Black Rock City branch.
  •  10-24-2021, 9:57 PM 12449 in reply to 12443

    Re: Dreamingone and MrTeaCup

    Thank you for hearing my frustration and honoring my perspective.  This has been a salient issue for a number of years.  The question that I hear you bringing up then is what qualifies as integral?

    In W4 I would define it as a flourishing health in each aspect of AQAL, in the new system I would define it as having the structures to facilitate stage and structure growth and shadow work.  One does this by having peak experiences which are then encorporated into one's stage.

    To me, the Man burning is literally my Self burning, where I face my deepest fears and look into the eyes of every person who has ever wondered why they are alive as they looked into their own Fire.  I believe that this is a pre-trans structure which is instrumental in informing human consciousness.  Think about the commonality of fire.  It is there for every important moment.  Romanitic dinners, childood memories, the 4th of July is an incredible consciousness typology with eveyone watching the fireworks.  How many people are Witnessing that emission of light at the same time? 
    We've moved to a spectrum system, right? The thing is, Fire is full spectrum.  It has a blackbody based on fuel, right?  This would be the same thing as when we talk about how "we're all rainbows." Fire provides all these wavelengths, physically.  Why wouldn't that be Integral and inform on all wavelengths?

    I'm seriously looking for answers here because I am completely befuddled as to what it takes to *really* embrace integral consciousness.

  •  10-28-2021, 1:53 PM 12925 in reply to 12449


    This series of links just came over the regional BM list, and I thought it was illustrative

    Loving Light
    IT is
    TI me
  •  10-29-2021, 4:51 AM 13010 in reply to 12435

    Re: Does this description make sense to you?

    Thanks, Jkare

    Those thoughts certainly gave me another perspective of Burning Man. I'm not sure if your post was intended as a response to the question at the end of my post ("How does that sound to you?") but I thought I'd reply nevertheless. Smile [:)]

    By no means did I intend to imply that the participants are incapable of building post-magenta (or even integral) culture, or that they fail or do not try to do so. Still, I find it plausible that both you and the Holons News are correct here.

    Why? Consider the following questions:
    • Where can I experience a strong, healthy form of magenta?
    • Where can I experience a strong, healthy form of teal/turquoise?

    It seems to me that the answer to both is Burning Man. Owing to the nature of an integral event/book/whatnot, it has many characteristics from many/all of the previous levels. Then the differences in the ranking of, say, Burning Man depend entirely on what we mean by placing it on a certain level. Just some possible ways to look at it:
    • What is the highest level represented by/at the event?
    • What is the center of gravity of the participants/organizers/core group?
    • On what level(s) are the characteristics that make this event really stand out? which point we might ask ourselves, what good are these rankings anyway? Smile [:)]

    Still, no matter what color we assign to Burning Man, it just climbed up a few ranks on my things to do before I die list.

    Janne Asmala
    [email protected]
  •  10-30-2021, 7:56 AM 13086 in reply to 12177

    Re: Pick your Purple

    You are asking a very tricky question.  Until we have some ways to measure in and out flows of subtle energies of the chakras, I feel this subject is purely conjecture.  Though fun!  It reminds me of the maxim, "The map is not the territory." 

    I have seen systems that said that each chakra changes rotation and that men start clockwise at the root and women start counterclockwise at the root.  The second chakra would then spin counter clockwise for the men and clockwise for the women, on up each of our bodies.  As a result when you put two bodies together, they line up like a zipper. 

    reading this contribution i thought it could be of II convenience to link you up to which organ-eyes-ez our spirals up and downward & vic versa ...

    just finger the notes or planets ... here
    and donot forget to focus ... connectively

    oh and Jkare your IT resonates to the pi sign where TI mirrors it ;-)
    "Through the 28::7 T-T cosmogenesis of time, merge your mind into the ever-evolving higher conciousness of time!

    If there were not time, there would be no mind to become." - VV-Rinri-II
  •  10-30-2021, 5:39 PM 13136 in reply to 13086

    Re: Pick your Purple

    hey all, helen here from gab-board below - first time poster here , and if yous' must know i only pock me' nose here now and again to look-read some.

    this different direction chakra spin for man and woman thing ? never heard of it ... i may check out the www-site .tk / but for now just want to say 'how inriguing is that?'.

     i haven't any idea if my share-scriblling - about , 'my heart chakra acted weird when....' experience ...  oh many moons ago , or even longer -  when i was still a reiki student - during one class / practice , my teacher decided to pendulum-scan my chakras, has anything to do with the above  'different systems claim   the chakras in men and women rotate in diff. direction , that's why when they are together they zip-up' ---or not, but!...

    "look at it!  there it goes again! it's changing directions in mid-spin!" .. ('twos the heart chakra only) i recal being quite flaked out (relaxed) and didn't even care to look...others in room gathered to see it. hmm? what does this make me? both and or borg?

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