Okay, I've seen about 20 minutes of both videos. Why do they add all that eerie music into the mix?

1) The plane dissapearing act--the planes that flew into the World Trade Center towers went all the way in; why wouldn't the same happen with the Pentagon?

2) They present evidence of post-9/11 coverups as evidence for a conspiracy, but those coverups could just as easily have been to save peoples' reputations, jobs, etc. The ones I heard of on the videos all had to do with how people responded to it or might have prevented it.

3) I wonder about flight 93 being shot down perhaps, but even if it was it wouldn't necessarily be evidence that they planned the whole thing. They could have just thought the public would villify them for shooting it down.

The premonitions about the whole thing in the first video were very interesting. Not proof of a conspiracy, but maybe evidence that the spiral kicks up premonitions of the future.

Have you looked at this?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracies

 

With love,

mm

Hi mm,

it's hard to argue against the music :-) or with any of the other points you brought up after watching for 20 minutes, soooo....

But if you haven't already made up your mind about what this government is capable of, you (everyone) might consider this:

Wikipedia and the Intelligence Services: Is the Net's popular encyclopedia marred by disinformation?

from an article found at Global Research - Media Disinformation

Excerpt:

"According to clues accumulated by ordinary citizens around the world, it could be that the CIA and other intelligence agencies are riding the information wave and planting disinformation on Wikipedia. If so, tens of thousands of innocent and unwitting citizens around the world are translating and propagating their lies, providing these agencies with a universal news network."

_________________________________________________________________

Translation of the last two lines from a popular German saying by Wilhelm Busch (no relation to you-know-who)

"Thus he concludes decisively,
there CANNOT be what must not be."



Playfully,

M

Oh, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if wikipedia has been infilterated by the CIA, and everyone else as well. It's kind of a battleground, and I wouldn't depend on it for information about any controversial issue. At the end of that article, though, there were links to sites that claimed to have answers to some of the consipiracy claims. I'll look into a few of those.

mm

 

 

Hi Charlesb,

I can appreciate your sentiments; I too argued for a long time that the administration's incompetence refuted any rational explanations of their complicity.  The last reasonable arguments against the truth are either incompetence or that it would have been impossible to keep secret with so many people involved.  Either of these arguments does not change the fact that no other theory short of controlled demolition can explain the collapse of the three towers.  If anyone has one I love to hear it. 

As for the incompetence angle, the administration in fact plays into this notion when it serves them.  In fact, the Patriot Act, although largely written before 9/11, was seen as a response to intelligence failures to protect the "homeland".  I would argue that the administration has actually been quite competent in achieving their goals.  Bush himself is a figurehead, an actor meant to sell policy.  The blueprint for the understanding the long-term goals of the neo-cons is in the PNAC (Project for a New American Century) document.  If you give it a read you will see that most of its aims are well underway, although perhaps a bit behind schedule.  In this light, the instability in Iraq and our continued presence there were never really in question, and still are not.  The failures of Katrina and Rita were willful negligence, not incompetency.  The fact that Blackwater mercenaries and the National Guard were called in for police functions instead of rescue operations, and that within a few days, press coverage leaned towards blaming the victims for their own suffering and escalating violence, lead me to believe that FEMA viewed this as a test run in implementing martial law, including wholesale confiscation of firearms. 

I also held on to the idea that it would have been impossible to keep such a huge plan under wraps.  Well, the Manhattan Project was certainly a success in this respect.  Bureaucratic incompetency is always the last resort in deflecting blame when there are no other avenues down which to turn.  When the heat is too much, look for someone down the chain to blame (Brownie, Tenet, rank and file in the Abu Ghraib debacle, Gonzalez, etc.).

Thanks Charles,

This from the intro to 9/11 on www.911thruth.org 

"The Two-Step 9/11 Truth Expedition

Understanding the full truth of 9/11 seems to require two separate awakenings.

The first, awakening to the fraudulence of the "official 9/11 story," is a pretty simple brain function and only requires a little study, logic or curiosity. We can help a lot with that part here and it's a major purpose of this site.

The second step, however, consciously confronting the implications of that knowledge--and what it says about our media, politics and economic system today--is by far the harder awakening and requires an enormous exercise of nerve and heart. (As the Chinese say, "You cannot wake up a man who is pretending to sleep.") In other words, this part of the journey depends more on character than on maps and evidence so we can't help you much here, except to point out inspiring heroes and heroines who have courageously faced that truth, spoken out, and survived. (Though we might also point out the intriguing fact that our 9/11 heroines now outnumber 9/11 heroes by about six to one.) "

Charles,

I feel like you are intuiting how the hard the second awakening would be and will not do the easy awakening and look at all the evidence. Charles do your homework on this and you will see how the first awakening is way easier then the second. Working with the second awakening is what I am about. The first awakening many people have not had. And it is straight foward. To give you some scope of how far the coverup machine goes look at this site with a few short videos. Reporters are reporting the collapse of WCT 7 a long time before it actaully collapsed. Even funnier is the live video footage behing the reporter that shows the building still standing. CNN also got caught doing this.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/260207building7.htm

 

So , The facts will show you they are very organized. Do you have the facts? I doubt it.

 

 

 

Hi Garbageman,

 

The world of conspiracy is a nasty place indeed, and from what you have written it seems highly likely that living in such a negative place runs the risk of embracing views that strain credulity. The idea of a wholesale confiscation of firearms in the United States is such an example. Just off the top of my head my guess is that there are over 200 million such weapons here and that many of the owners of which would use them to resist any such attempt or at least put them into safe hiding.

 

So it seems wise to remember that expressing an idea does not necessarily mean that it is true, and that to ‘cry wolf’ is a truism that speaks directly to the point of credulity.

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

 

   

Another link  "9/11 all in one chunk":

http://whatreallyhappened.com/9-11BasicQuestions

See also this earlier discussion we had here about 9/11 ...

Mary

---

Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.

~Rumi

Thanks Mary,

The post was six pages long. And they didn't get anywhere. One of the last posts was"Even if it is only to reveal that we are not all ready to discuss these issues directly."

I personally am not focused on 9/11 anymore. It is just one of the ways to wake people up to what is happening to our society. The Federal Reserve Bank is private( meaning illegal) is another one. Hows , personal income tax is voluntary and has been illegally collected. Hows about the accounting regulations when looked at by a mathematition looks like a fancy way of playing hide and seek( like listing debts as assets). Hows about the derivatives market has under its playing field 450 TRILLION dollar (which obviosly does not REALLY exsist), all ready to come crashing down right now. Hows about the electronic voting systems are made for fraud. Hows about by the time we have RFID chips are on our drivers license (May 2024) that you will not have a chance to make any difference in the world you really didn't know till it was too late, That you do not live in a Democracy, not in a Republic, but in a oligarchy. We have lived in a oligarchy for a long time. How can you help someone wakeup and be free when they already think they are.

 

My fear is that by the time people get it, it would already be way too late. We need one more event for BUSH to declare a National Emergancy and all the NAZI laws he has already signed will be totally active and functioning. Do you know the laws that have been passed since 9/11? They are down right scary.

Hi Innerline,

 

I have sympathy for all those who are lost; including those who think they are found.

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

Charles,

I would agree with your line of thinking regarding weapons confiscation except that I know it to be true from personal experience.  I have spent quite a bit of time in New Orleans before and after Katrina and have heard very trusted friends describe what went on there.  Not to mention that the NRA is not very pleased. . . Take a look at their video. . . They're usually not regarded as conspiracy dabblers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

On my last trip there this May I watched a man in an SUV get pulled over by no less than three camo-painted Humvees and one patrol car with "Military Police" stenciled on the rear.  I was sitting on my friend's front porch on Elysian Fields Ave. and watched the whole thing.  He had apparently run a red light a block further up the street.  All 'police' were wearing camo fatigues and carrying military rifles. 
When the local cops arrived, I heard the seargent say to one of his officers, "Look at these assholes taking up three lanes on a four lane street".  That made me laugh. 

Charles ,

Are you getting religious? Your on the same planet as me. The event unfold before our eyes. Real change does not happen slowly but in shocks and leaps. Do you think our world has went through the shock changes yet? The last shock, like the one I  think is coming, was when the printing press came into the world. Down with the churches, next down with repressive governments. Are you getting religious?

Sad response Charles

 

Innerline,

your BBC video link above didn't work for me. In case others are experiencing the same thing, here is another one:


* Time Stamp Confirms BBC Reported WTC 7 Collapse 26 Minutes In Advance*

WTC building 7 is the 47-story Salomon Brothers highrise.



I've also posted an excerpt from one of your replies on our sister site at zaadz Impeachment - pros and cons. Everyone, I hope you will join the discussions there as well.


All the best,

M

 The fall of the World Trade Centers, the hijackings, the attack on the Pentagon cost the U.S. economy billions and severely damaged some U.S. airlines, U.S. tourism, among many other things. How could they see it in their interest to do this? If Iraq was what they had in mind, wouldn't it have been easier to just invade and then take whatever heat they got from the international community, which they had to do anyway? They didn't really invade Iraq in the wake of 9/11--they invaded Afghanistan in the wake of 9/11. If the purpose was Sadaam Hussein, and they did conspire to bring down the World Trade Center and attack the Pentagon, wouldn't they have staged it to look like Iraq had something to do with it? Really, if they had planned the whole thing and Iraq was the real target they would have had things lined up to look like Iraq had something to do with it.

 

Hi monkmonk,

Are you having a hard time contemplating the possibility that evil is in power. They have had these plans for a long time. I guess you were not updated by the academic historians finally getting all the classified info ( I think in 2024) on Pearl Harbor and reported that it was a inside job. It is not that the US Gov did it, they provoked Japan to have to attack and WATCHED as they attacked. And why did the US Gov let us be attacked? , to get the people behind the war.  Very similar to 9/11.

Monkmonk I am going to give you the goods. Read this http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2007/280307handle.htm

also research this group ( in article above)

Project for the New American Century (PNAC)

is what the neocons are doing. And it is not just about IRAQ but the WHOLE MIDDLE EAST. Iraq is just the easiest. The PNAC is a scary group and Cheney is totally involved with this group. Start connecting the dots monkmonk.