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Mother Mary

Last post 09-11-2006, 8:25 AM by timelody. 23 replies.
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  •  08-27-2006, 5:02 PM 5602 in reply to 5599

    Re: Mother Mary

    Some description of the UL-Interior experience from conducted interviews.

    (What is extraordinary about these particular vision experiences is that they are experienced, simultaneously, by six different people-which also has no particular correlation with time and space. i.e. they do not need to be together, even in the same country. And no matter where they are it is always at exactly the same GM time) 

    Vicka was asked to describe Our Lady, and this was her response:

    Before . . . I am able to see a special kind of light that flashes three times. . . . She is dressed in a gray gown, with a white veil. She has a crown of stars, blue eyes, dark hair, rosy cheeks and she is floating on a small, gray cloud. She doesn't touch the ground. On special feast days like Christmas, Easter, Our Lady's birthday, and so forth, she comes dressed in a golden gown . . . . We hug and kiss each other and we can see each other in a normal way, just as I can see anyone else.

    Q: Does the Blessed Mother look like the picture and statues we have of her? What is her voice like, is it soft?

    Mirjana - A: I have never seen a picture or statue of Our Lady that I could say looks like Our Lady because I think it is impossible. Because it is not just an outer beauty we see; it is something that breathes from within her. It is something like a mother's beauty. And when people sometimes ask me do I have anything to compare this with, perhaps the only thing I can say to compare it to is when a mother gives birth to her child, the first time that child is placed in her arms. Our Lady's expression and face most resembles that moment. I can try to describe her, she is a little taller than me. She always has a grey dress and a white veil, except for Christmas and Easter, when she wears a gold dress. And she has long black hair, you see it here on the side of her head and on the side by her waist, which means she has long hair. She has blue eyes, and she is most beautiful. Because as I already said, it is impossible to describe the beauty that comes from within her. When we were children, we asked her children's questions. We asked her, "How is it possible you are so beautiful?" And she smiled at us, and she said, "It's because I love," and she said, "My dear children, if you desire to be beautiful, then love." And at that time when she said this, Jakov was only ten years old. And when Our Lady left, Jakov said, "I think Our Lady is not speaking the truth here." And we asked him, "How can you say Our Lady is not speaking the truth?" He said, "Look at the six of us visionaries - we could love our entire lives and we would never be beautiful!" That's why he is having apparitions for 17 years!


    Interview with visionary Ivanka: 

    Q: When you talk with the Madonna in your visions, we cannot hear you speak.

    Ivanka: We speak out loud, the same as now.

    Q: Let me put it this way. Do you speak with the Madonna mentally - that is She understands what you think - or do you speak to her in a low voice, a whisper, so we cannot hear you? Or is your conversation miraculous - beyond our power to hear and understand?

    Ivanka: I speak with Her normally, the same as I'm speaking now. Also, I hear Her voice and words in the normal way, as well as what the others say.


    Another interview with Vicka:

    Will you describe to us the appearance, the figure, the disposition of the Queen of Peace the way you see and experience her?

    Each time before Our Lady comes, we see a light three times, which is a sign that she is coming. When she appears, she has a white veil, a crown of stars on her head, her eyes are blue, the hair black, the cheeks rosy; she is hovering in the air on a great cloud, so she does not touch the ground. For some greater festivities, for example Christmas and Easter, or for her birthday, she wears a robe of gold.

    Is she a woman from the distant past or is she a woman of our times?

    I personally experience her as a person from our times, therefore, as though she were living at this time.

    What charms you most in the apparitions, what fascinates and enchants you most?

    Maybe the feeling as if you were no more on earth, as if you were suspended in air.

    How do you talk with Our Lady? Is it a free conversation?

    The same as with you now, quite free, there is no difference.

    Since the first days of apparitions you and all other visionaries have been claiming that Our Lady speaks to you in the Croatian language?

    Yes . . .



    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  08-27-2006, 9:55 PM 5622 in reply to 5602

    • Ramsses is online. Last active: 10-20-2006, 7:22 PM Ramsses
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    Re: Mother Mary

    Marian apparitons have always fascinated me. Did you know that Our Lady of Medjugorje has been outspoken in her tolerance of other religions? Have you heard of Mata Amritanandamayi, or Amma (Mother) as she is more commonly known? I believe that she is God Incarnate.


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  •  08-27-2006, 10:36 PM 5625 in reply to 5622

    Re: Mother Mary

    Did you know that Our Lady of Medjugorje has been outspoken in her tolerance of other religions?

    Yes. I was going to post a bit more about that.

    The other thing, that fascinates me about Medjugogje, is that the messages, so far as I can tell (barring translation difficulties) can be interpreted perfectly from any level. Which bespeaks great purity to me. More later.

    Have you heard of Mata Amritanandamayi, or Amma (Mother) as she is more commonly known? I believe that she is God Incarnate.

    No. Share more?

    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  08-27-2006, 11:46 PM 5628 in reply to 5625

    • Ramsses is online. Last active: 10-20-2006, 7:22 PM Ramsses
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    Re: Mother Mary

    From her website:

    On the morning of the 27th of September 1953, in a small poor fishing village, Parayakadavu in the Quilon district of Kerala, a baby girl was born. Her parents gave her the name Sudhamani. She came into this world not in tears as babies usually do, but with a beaming smile on her face, as if prophesying the joy and bliss she was to bring to the world.

    Sudhamani spent the years of her childhood and teens immersed in intense spiritual practices in order to present a living example for the world. Even as a small child, she could often be found absorbed in deep meditation, totally oblivious of her surroundings. By the age of five, she had already begun composing devotional songs laden with deep mystical insight.

    Another quality that was clearly manifest in Sudhamani from this tender age was her love and compassion toward her fellow human beings. Though only a child, Sudhamani did whatever she could to ease the suffering of her elderly neighbors. She washed their clothes, bathed them and even brought them food and clothing from her own home. This habit of giving away things from her family’s house landed her in deep trouble. However, no amount physical abuse or punishment could stop the expression of her inborn compassion. She later said, " An unbroken stream of Love flows from me towards all beings in the cosmos. That is my inborn nature."

    ‘Amma’ as she is known all over the world today, has inspired and started innumerable humanitarian services. She has earned international recognition for her outstanding contributions to the world community. She is recognized as an extraordinary spiritual leader by the United Nations and by the people all over the world.

    Though Amma makes no claims herself, those who watch her closely notice that she is the greatest example of her teaching. Her disciples and believers imbibe her teachings by just watching her.

    For the past 35 years Amma has dedicated her life to the uplifting of suffering humanity through the simplest of gestures – an embrace. In this intimate manner Amma had blessed and consoled more than 25 million people throughout the world.

    When someone asked Amma why she receives every person who comes to her in a loving embrace Amma replied, “ If you ask the river,' why do you flow?' what can it say?”

    Amma spends most of her waking hours receiving the distressed and all who come to her for comfort, day after day without a break.

    Once a press reporter asked Amma how was it possible for her to embrace each and every one in the same loving way, even if they were diseased or unpleasant. Amma replied, “ When a bee hovers over a garden of varied flowers, what it beholds is not the difference between the flowers but the honey within them. Similarly Amma sees the same Supreme Self in each and every one.”
    As Dr. Jane Goodall, while presenting Amma with the 2002 Gandhi-King Award for Non-violence said,
    " She stands here in front of us. God's love in a human body."

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  •  08-28-2006, 7:33 AM 5645 in reply to 5628

    Re: Mother Mary

    Wow. Thanks for that. I could really feel what you are talking about just from that -and also from the website.


    Here is the best I could find right now with regard to what is basically a worldcentric stance out of Medjugorje. If not Kosmocentric-either way it is decidedly non-ethnocentric. In fact, along those line, that is a commonly raised objection to these (still not "officially" Church approved) apparitions; many people complain about these worldcentric messages vehemently.


    There is still some trouble obtaining accurate quotes and messages -due to translation, multiple sources not corroberating, so on. But when and if I can find those closest to the source, I will edit this.


    From and interview with Mirjana: (emphasis mine)

    She also emphasized the failings of religious people, especially in small villages - for example, here in Medjugorje, where there is separation from Serbians (i.e., Serbian Orthodox) and Moslems. This separation is not good. The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God, and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well. You do not really believe in God if you make fun of other religions.

    (Just for posterity, these are this visionary's words. Oh, and PS-I am certain this particualr person is operating on, at least, a formal operational cognitive capacity.)



    Question: "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?

    Seer Vicka Ivankovic: "No. The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son." (Janice T. Connell, The Visions of the Children, The Apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Medjugorje, St. Martin's Press, August 1992)



    All religions are dear to my son.  It is you on earth who are divided.  We are all children of God.  The Moslems and the Orthodox for the same reason as Catholics are equal before my son and me.  All religions are not equal.  All men are equal before God.  It does not suffice to belong to the Catholic Church to be saved.  It is necessary to respect and obey the commandants of God in following one’s conscience.  Those who are not Catholics are no less creatures made in the image of God and destined ultimately to live in the house of God.  Salvation is available to everyone without exception.  Only those who refuse God deliberately are condemned by their own choice.


    (I question the accuracy of the above because it is from a declaiming website. But it is close to the general idea. . . . but on this site the words are presented as a testement to the unholy (i.e. non-ethnocentric!) nature of the apparitions.)



    From one of the most reliable sources:

    There was a question asked of Our Lady in October 1981 which was:

    Are all religions the same? Our Lady answered: "Members of all faiths are equal before God. God rules over each faith just like a sovereign over his kingdom. In the world, all religions are not the same because all people have not complied with the commandments of God. They reject and disparage them."


    This last is the most accurate. What is striking is that it is such a leap from ethnocentric mythic-membership, and the stress or emphasis falls onto the individual (worldcentric, orange-you are not judged by "your religion or creed" but by your character). The religion itself is not the source of salvation, nor automatic "better-ness" because of membership in it. (Which is also highly egocentric.)


    I do find that last sentence interesting, because . . . it does not specify which religions are "not in compliance with the commandments of God" . . .Hmm [^o)]Hmm? (i.e. like, maybe even  . . . Christianity!? which also, again, says decide for yourself-worldcentric individualism).


    Lastly, I could not find it but there is a story where she tells them that someone in the village is near sainthood. When they ask who they are shocked to find out it is a Muslim woman. To which she says "That is for God to decide."



    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  08-28-2006, 4:47 PM 5722 in reply to 5645

    • maryw is not online. Last active: 10-20-2006, 12:22 PM maryw
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    Re: Mother Mary

    Hi Tim and all --

    A couple of years ago I read Lisa Schwebel's Apparitions, Healings, and Weeping Madonnas: Christianity and the Paranormal. Although written in a somewhat rambling, disjointed fashion (the editor in me speaking), it includes an intriguing examination of recent research into unusual miraculous events in the Christian realm. One thing that impressed me is that she seriously considers the influence of cultural / intersubjective perspectives (although she does not use those terms) on the content of Marian visions. 

    As one reviewer writes:

    Looking at these various accounts from the twin points of view of theology and parapsychology, [Schwebel's book] offers an enormous amount of insight, as well as providing suggestions for a reliable criteria with respect to discerning whether a vision is genuine. A thoughtfully reasoned and meticulously analyzed account that pays due respect to science and faith alike, Apparitions, Healings, And Weeping Madonnas is inherently fascinating and impressively informative reading.

    Definitely worth checking out!



    Let the beauty we love be what we do.
    There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.

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  •  08-28-2006, 5:33 PM 5731 in reply to 5722

    Re: Mother Mary

    Mary, you just helped put an important puzzle piece into place for me.

    It not just that these sorts of things arise within a Christian Cultural context (predominantly Catholic), but they also, more importantly, arise because of that context!

    And that is where I feel Christianity (and especially mystical Catholicism) has a lot to teach us about Spirit's manifest potential in the world/ or our own potential to manifest Spirit in the world. These things are just too extraordinary (and too real) to ignore.

    Going back a thought.

    Pretty much always -and certainly in the cases of the more famous and dramatic Marian apparitions-they arise within a very clear cut AQAL context, particularly where there is socio-culturally (LL,LR) "something wrong" -that basically, Spirit (or Higher Self) cries out to "fix."

    In the case of Medjugorje, for example, it is both the "modern world" context (and as Ken put it in the latest chapter of IS, the "ludicrous layer cake," so spiritual intelligence is choking anyhow) but also in a very disturbed and volatile a) just the Balkan region altogether (LL) b.) an oppressive communist government (at the time these visions began -so dysfunctional LR) c.) a brutal war that did eventually brake out and then d.) the "rebuilding" after that war and so forth and the continual context of the "modern world."

    The "modern world" context is the larger overall message of Medjugogje - fix this "ludicrous layer cake" . . . soon. I will show you how . . .

    After all, it's all just our collective Higher Self talking . . .

    "Not through introspection but through history do we come to know ourselves."

    Awesome.Smile [:)]

    All for now.

    Peace, Tim


    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  09-10-2006, 8:47 PM 7553 in reply to 5731

    Re: Mother Mary

    Odd how similar she is even in quite different cultures.  I don’t have “visions” but she is never far from how I picture her.  A woman for every occasion and a woman for every people. 

    For a long time now I've wanted an artist in glass to make a beautiful BVM for me from clear glass but pregnant with a blue & green planet earth in her womb.  I’m sure she extends beyond, but my primary concerns do not.  I like to picture her holding the world inside to nurture and care for.  Letting us all go with a little sadness.  Welcoming us back with a knowing and joyful smile.


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  •  09-11-2006, 8:25 AM 7578 in reply to 7553

    Re: Mother Mary

    There's a subversive idea for you 1235813-have an apparition of Our Lady!

    (Actually, in all seriousness, that's almost always been historically the case.)

    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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