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The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA
Last post 07-25-2008, 2:41 PM by innerline. 269 replies.
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 01-11-2008, 8:39 AM |
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markevans
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Knoxville TN USA
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
My apologies to all of you, especially Rocco. Lying in bed the night after I posted my reply I realized, "that was an unsupported, brusk, and potenially insulting post." I tried to delete it but couldn't.
Aren't political discussions exciting?
They generate all kinds of material for the 321 Process.
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| 01-11-2008, 10:24 PM |
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rocco
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
Don't sweat it no need to apologize. Political arguements are i think the hardest to have with people, they always end up bad with everyone getting emotional and pissed at each other. Speaking of the 321 process i personally think reading blogs brings up more shadow shit than anything else I can think of for me. Much love and good luck in your practice.
Rocco
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| 01-12-2008, 1:43 PM |
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markevans
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Knoxville TN USA
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
Castel asked me for clairification on projection. Let's take my assertion that Huckabee is more Integral than he's getting credit for. I watched him get grilled for an hour on NBC's Meet the Press, where interviewees are given the time to answer questions in complete sentences. I liked what he had to say on immigration, arts in the schools, Jihadists, the global market place and the US's place in it, to name a few things. I'm enthused. I like the guy. I'm going by what he says to an educated audience, not his sound bites and postion papers aimed at his Truth Force base.
Projection is when we mistakenly put our state/mood/world view onto someone else instead of correctly assessing the other person's perspective. There is "dark" and "light" shadow that we can project. If I'm at an Integral stage, and get enthused about someone, I can (mistakenly) project my stage onto their behavior and see Integral, but I'm seeing my Integral, not their's. I've done it before; we all do it at times and we need to use the 321 process to do it less. (This was a light shadow example.)
The dark shadow is the one that gets more ink, but they are both important.
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| 01-14-2008, 5:57 AM |
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kaya33
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
I'm confused...probably b/c I haven't taken the time to actually explore Mike Huckabee's views. If what markevans says is true and MH comes across as Teal/Yellow (and I'm not doubting mark's assertions and don't have time/inclination to find out if they're true) on many issues then, according to the integral or SD models, what's up with him being an evolution denier? Is it a line thing? If so, which line? Can't be cognitive b/c he's presumably integral on many other issues. Makes me think of KW pointing out that the Dalai Lama thinks homosexuality is morally wrong (or something like that). So if there's a moral line of development the DL is still at amber in some ways? So what if someone like MH denies orange scientific truth about evolution...how does that fit into the integral model?
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| 01-16-2008, 6:53 PM |
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zneval
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iowa
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
mark,
I am still unsure as to how you are classifying Huckabee as an integral candidate. So far your reason can be summarized as: "I like the guy," followed by your evidently classifying yourself as integral (and in mentioning the light shadow, you all but admitted to projecting your own integrality on to Huckabee.). I am also curious about your reasoning because the vMemes do NOT say anything about the values a person holds-- vMemes are the containers, values are the Memes themselves. So I don't think we can judge what "color" a person's center of gravity is by what values they seem to support; rather, we have to judge WHERE those values are coming from. HOW does he or she THINK about the problem? (not: what do they think?)
Turquoise is in one sense defined as "embracing global communitarian sense without attacking individuals' right to be" as well as, "discovers new versions of spirituality" (SD, Beck and Cowen). I must say I would disagree in classifying Huckabee as either of these. Firstly, (and I may be off on this interpretation), being staunchly against abortion (even from time of "conception") and against same-sex marriage seems to be attacking an "individuals' right to be." Just recently, he said he would amend the constitution so that it more closely followed "God's law." I am not trying to say that at some point church and state won't be reconciled in such a fashion (and inevitabily it will (but only by an integral candidate!)), but certainly having a Baptist minister's conception of God and God's law being imposed on the entire country really does not seem like it is honoring individuals' right to be, nor would those amendments becoming from an integral spirituality. And maybe it is just obvious to me that Huckabee has not discovered a "new version of spirituality". I cannot think of any specific example right now, but the manner in which he has gone about smearing and attacking other candidates is not only incongruent with how a minister should act (imho), but more importantly does not seem congruent with anyone who has found a "newer version of spirituality." Then again, we have Ken Wilber telling critics to suck his dick, so I'm not surprised how this could get confusing.... what a shame...
Remember also that Turquoise readily admits when their knowledge is lacking, is honest about their weaknesses. To date, I have seen one candidate really admit to their faults and failings in the past and the present (aside from saying, "sometimes I am too emotional", not a fault, just a fact).
Please keep in mind I am not challenging your support of Huckabee, simply your assertion that he is integral. And if I am missing something, I would love to hear/talk about it.
bless,
Tim
"identity which is not convulsive ceases to exist" ---breton
Nine Ways Not to Talk about God
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| 01-19-2008, 7:34 AM |
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cgnost
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
I have to agree with Mark's intuition that Huckabee has some second tier in him. Witness the New Hampshire debate, for example, when the republican candidates were all asked how they'd run against Obama in the general election - every republican predictably emphasized social conservativism and some internal/external quadrant differences, but Huckabee stopped and recognized that Obama was delivering a piece of the truth that the other candidates (including the Republicans) weren't. See http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4093225&affil=wjla (Huckabee starts at about the 6 minute mark; comments I'm referring to at 6:55). From other appearances, I hear Huckabee talking about issues across party lines - environmentalism, for example. That said, he's definitely a social conservative; often he says so with strong amber tones (see the above link again), but sometimes in more encompassing tones (see Huckabee's Daily Show appearances). All in all, I think Huckabee has expressed more of the integral intuition than any other Republican candidate; and like all of us, his self-sense falls all over the developmental map. That said, I don't think he's attempting to bring integral to politics as much as bringing his own values (healthy amber, for the most part - but healthy, and that's huge) through integral cognition.
I also agree that Obama has expressed more of the integral intuition than we've ever seen from a major party candidate. "Is" he integral? I'm not sure; his policies seem to often fall along traditional left/democrat/liberal lines. I do believe, though, that he's the best hope for bringing integral into the oval office. For those interested, I've posted a blog entry on this same topic: http://grostic.gaia.com/blog/2008/1/integral_politics_-_an_open_letter_to_senator_obama
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| 01-19-2008, 7:39 AM |
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cgnost
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
I'll just repost my blog entry here: Integral Politics - An Open Letter to Senator Obama I
am a member of Young Lawyers for Obama, but I am writing to you
primarily as a student of integral philosophy. In its purest form,
integral philosophy is the understanding that everyone and every
approach carries some truth, but not the whole truth - that every
approach is "true, but partial," as the leading integral thinker, Ken
Wilber, puts it. From this basic premise, Wilber has created a
framework for recognizing both the truths and the shortcomings in as
many approaches as possible.
I believe that you yourself have
this integral intuition. From your speeches to various interest
groups, boldly presenting the partialities of their interests, to your
appearance on The Daily Show, teasing out of the "lack of experience"
attack the truth of the need for good judgment, you seem to understand
that a new way forward requires us to recognize that each of has a part
of a deep truth - and, just as importantly, that we need to rigorously
and humbly work together to recognize our shortcomings and piece
together more of that truth. Indeed, I see your entire campaign,
cutting across the categories that have separated us, as built on the
integral intuition. Republicans and Democrats, Red State and Blue
State - we all have a piece of the truth, and those pieces need to both
be recognized as partial and be integrated into an ever-greater whole
if we are to attack the global problems of today with any effect.
That
said, we all struggle with how to put that intuition into action, and
it appears to me that you are no exception. In your health care
proposal, for example, you appear to recognize the twin truths that
external factors (the opportunity to obtain affordable health care) and
internal factors (the responsibility to work and obtain that care,
when we can) must be integrated; but the internal factors, in
particular, seem to fall by the wayside in some respects. And in
general, I often see you express the integral intuition of bringing us
together under a broader truth, but struggle to put into words the
particulars of that vision.
Wilber has written a number of
introductions to his integral framework that I believe would be very
valuable to you, both in forming policies and in communicating your
vision (though, I must say, you seem to already have a skill for
integral communication). See, e.g.,
http://integralinstitute.org/public/static/abtapproach.aspx
Additionally, I would enjoy sharing with you further thoughts on an
integral approach to politics, should you be interested.
There
are a number of us "integral" folks supporting you already, as you put
into action on a grand scale much of what we've been exploring on a
smaller scale. I and others would love to be of service, if we can.
Thanks,
Christian Grostic
(cross posted at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/christiangrostic/CVrR)
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| 01-20-2008, 7:03 AM |
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ambosuno
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Joined on 10-30-2006
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So Cal
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Posts 652
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
I like your summary and your letter, CG. Succinct. I hope he responds; let us know, OK.
As I read through your letter, the only thing that I had wished for my own sensibilities, was the "twin truths". I actually like that phrase and understand why one would want to counterpose those two.
I noticed also that I had wanted to see the additional confounding internal point of view of self-responsibilities to keep oneself healthy, sane, wise and such, to educate oneself so as to be as self-reliant as possible where there are limited resources for helping. The ILP of course makes waves towards that. It's too much, probably, for a succinct engaging letter but it seems to me that a growing understanding of life, self, and the world includes the relationship of life and death and that an integral politics would not accentuate the existing sharp division between the two, that the health and medical attendants would not have to fearfully fight nature's ways and death in some disproportionate way. I suppose this is part of education/understanding.
In summary, for an intro letter to Obama, I think yours was spot on; and of course, in this multiplex world and life, in our multiplex worlds and lives, there is so much to consider. Yo, ambo
Ambo Suno
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| 01-21-2008, 5:55 AM |
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Castel
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Joined on 08-02-2006
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
Something I was wanting to see more of in this thread was both more examples of what actual 2nd tier might look like as well as more actual examples of just how Barack Obama and/or Mike Huckabee are 2nd tier. To this end, I'm going to cross post from a sister thread and also give the link to a pod on Gaia (formerly Zaadz)devoted to Barak Obama as possible President. A pod tagged 'Integral'. I haven't investigated it too hard so can't vouch for its content. I thought it would be of interest, nonetheless... Here's the Gaia/Zaadz link to Barack Obama as President: http://pods.gaia.com/barackobama And here's Obama as 2nd tier: (thanks cgnost, I hope you don't mind)  cgnost:To respond directly, James, on why certain people are describing Obama as coming from 2nd Tier:
I
share with the intitial poster the feeling that he has an integral
intuition. He's obviously not using AQAL explicitly, and many of his
policies seem to come straight from traditional green-liberal
playbooks. That said, he talks openly about the internal quadrants
(from his personal spiritual sense to the role of culture in
education), he seems, in my opinion to recognize that truth can come
from any perspective (witness his recent comments speaking
semi-favorably of Reagan and the last 10-15 years of the Republican
party, which drew harsh criticisms of the form of "how dare you suggest
Reagan and the Republicans have any value!" from Clinton and Edwards),
he's been direct about recognizing the partialities of particular
viewpoints (witness his speech to auto execs calling for higher fuel
standards), and he's been extraordinary in recognizing the truth of
criticisms against him (personal favorite: on the Daily Show, he
discussed the lack-of-experience criticism and noted that people
appropriately want to be confident in a candidate's judgment, and then
discussed why voters can be confident in his judgment despite less
national experience). Perhaps more than that, I think a number of us
resonate with his message of a way forward beyond left and right,
Republican and Democrat, Red State and Blue State (see, e.g., his 2024
convention speech). Again, I don't think he's firmly settled in second
tier, but I hear a lot more of it from him than anyone else,
personally. Senator Obama certainly might lead us into an
administration of traditional Democrat/Liberal policies; but everything
I've heard from Clinton and Edwards tells me they definitely would...
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| 01-21-2008, 10:55 AM |
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zneval
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Joined on 08-07-2007
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iowa
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Posts 79
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
In senator Obama's speech today, he said this, "Unity is the great need of the hour - the great need of this hour." What is so interesting to me is that we have heard democrats talk about bringing the country together under the banner of social equality and wellness, but that none of them have ever taken unification to mean unification of the Red and Blue, as already recognized. Ken often speaks about the importance of the "we-space" in giving an individual the strength and confidence to make the "leap" -- whether this is a leap to 2nd-tier or just a more wholesome and fulfilling life. Integral above all seeks to see the wholeness, feel the wholeness, be the wholeness. What this takes is honest appraisal and faith in ourselves and faith in our shared "We." To me, this is how Barack comes down as feeling so integral, "I'm talking about a moral deficit. I'm talking about an empathy
deficit. I'm taking about an inability to recognize ourselves in one
another; to understand that we are our brother's keeper; we are our
sister's keeper; that, in the words of Dr. King, we are all tied
together in a single garment of destiny."
This is the recognition that strikes me as so intelligent. The democrats have long thought they could take a LR approach to things, primarily through enacting social systems. This is the legacy of FDR's New Deal mentality of governmental organizations aimed at bringing social welfare -- and there is no wrong in this, it simply isn't the whole picture. In the above quote, Barack acknowledges the responsibility we have to our brothers (LL) and to ourselves (UL) in bringing the change we need. And what he says, "the ability to recognize ourselves in one another," though he is probably not talking about shadow projections or referencing the non-personal non-dual, he is obviously going beyond the simpler mentality of, "we're in this together," in to a more intimate unity that we all share as God's children, the responsibility we have to all three faces of Spirit to do the will. In our country of such a unique individualism, this emphasis on the "We" that we all necessarily share will, I think, come to be the hallmark of any integral-looking president, and I see this emphasis in Barack's career.
Here is final portion from his speech, "If we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our
hands are entirely clean. If we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll
acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King’s
vision of a beloved community." Again, this recognition of having not done enough is not an admission of failure-- it is the simple recognition that we are all people, we all have our flaws and hang-ups, the vast majority still living by and through the small ego, and that it is no surprise that King's vision has not yet manifested. Yet, so often we hear from Democracts "do more" and what I hear from Obama is "be more." He is saying, alright guys, I'm going to admit to my failures in the past, some of which are really looked down upon by society, but I'm going to show by being how everyone can be more today than they were yesterday. He is willing to admit to the country he was into some pretty bad things, but that he transformed himself into something. To me, it is a metaphor for how he will treat the country and anyone he encounters-- with a fundamental newness in approach which comes from the faith that new, and greater, things can be done, and that they can be done in a more wholesome and honest way.
Just some thoughts. For Americans and non-Americans alike, I hope you take a few minutes to remember Dr. King in your hearts on this day--
god bless,
tim
"identity which is not convulsive ceases to exist" ---breton
Nine Ways Not to Talk about God
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| 01-21-2008, 12:04 PM |
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cgnost
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
I'd second the enthusiasm for Senator Obama's MLK Day speech. Here's an integral (or at least all-quadrant) highlight for me:
"And that is what is at stake in the great political debate we are
having today. The changes that are needed are not just a matter of
tinkering at the edges, and they will not come if politicians simply
tell us what we want to hear. All of us will be called upon to make
some sacrifice. None of us will be exempt from responsibility. We will
have to fight to fix our schools, but we will also have to challenge
ourselves to be better parents. We will have to confront the biases in
our criminal justice system, but we will also have to acknowledge the
deep-seated violence that still resides in our own communities and
marshal the will to break its grip."
For those interested, video and text are here:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/mlkvideo
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| 01-21-2008, 2:18 PM |
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rocco
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Joined on 09-28-2006
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
Obama has been getting beat up by the democrats for his recent comments. I am so sick of the Clintons and their childish tactics , Obama has recently said that the Republicans have been the "party of ideas" referring to the 90's and early 2024's when Democrats were not known for anything and the Republicans had a solid belief structure, sure they had ideas but very bad ones. Then in Nevada the childish Bill Clinton lied and told the people that Obama said the Republicans were the "party of Good ideas" which was totally false, he did not say that nor did he mean that he just said they had ideas and went against conventional wisdom.
Then Barack had the courage to complement Ronald Reagan for inspiring us during changing times and for inspiring a new sense of entrepreneurship that was gone for a while in the60's and 70's and John Edwards came crying out as well as Paul Begala (a clinton supporter) that he should never have done that and that Reagan was absolutely a disaster and nothing good came from him. Well Barack deserves a pat on the back for recognizing something Good in someone across the political aisle but most Democrats have to turn it into a big political story and cry about it because according to them you can't Complement a Republican!! Go Barack.
Rocco
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| 01-21-2008, 3:19 PM |
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cgnost
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Joined on 07-04-2006
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
I had the same thought, rocco. I won't repeat it here, but if interested:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/christiangrostic/CGgQQ
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| 01-21-2008, 7:39 PM |
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cgnost
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
CNN paints Obama as potentially coming from an integral perspective, Clinton as not:
MYRTLE BEACH, South Carolina (CNN) – Barack Obama is
running as a post-partisan — he speaks of building bridges, forging
consensus, and moving past red and blue states. It's a very appealing
message to many Americans, but can it rally the Democratic base,
seething to take on Republicans?
– CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/21/schneider-obamas-post-partisan-message/
MYRTLE BEACH, South Carolina (CNN) – Hillary Clinton
constantly speaks in partisan terms — that she knows how to "fight" the
Republicans — she's been doing it "for 16 years." It's very different
from Obama, and it's a tone that is very appealing to many partisan
Democrats that make up the majority of primary voters — but how will it
play in a general election match up?
– CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/21/schneider-hillary-speaks-partisan-language/
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| 01-27-2008, 10:53 AM |
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cgnost
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Re: The Teal Integral Revolution Begins With OBAMA!!
It's clear that Senator Obama isn't explicitly using an integral
framework; but listening
to his South Carolina victory speech, I hear: - all-quadrant messages - interior (self and culture) and exterior (individual and social) - messages integrating body (and emotion), mind, and spirit -
messages recognizing the value in other approaches while still
recognizing their shortcomings and calling for a higher and broader
approach Anyone else? http://www.youtube.com/v/-iVAPH_EcmQ&rel=1&border=1
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