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Last post 12-04-2007, 5:05 PM by Resurrected. 128 replies.
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  •  05-05-2007, 12:45 PM 22327


    If you have a working skeptiker then afther whatching this you should become sketipcal about the offizial version and maybe even get to the point of unterstanding that it even was a insigth job , so enjoin the movie

    If you looking for an anserw of the question why you haven´t heard about it in the media and if that was the first time some thing like that happend you maybe be intrested in this

    if you what real news and information than visit
    911 Myster
    Futher of Mankind
    America Freedom to Fascism
    I want the Earth
    Money as Debt
  •  07-30-2007, 10:48 AM 26606 in reply to 22327

    Re: 911 WAS A INSID JOB

    Why has no one responded to this post? I wonder if people on this forum are in denial about events in our culture. People know they are being lied to, but do not question events in our world to find out the truth. Is the integral community too weak to process the truth of our culture. Integral to be integral needs social action not in a patchwork manner (helping poor, enviromentalism etc) but at the root of causes, which in the upper left is internal and in the lower left and right it is our monetary system. I find the integral universe very ignorant of how the monetary system works in the lower right. Even smart people are not educated on money. Do you see a big gap in awareness? I do. Can integral have a dialog on the shadows of our world. Or are you going to wait for younger generation looking at you in contempt for not looking at the most blatent events that are shaping our culture. Integral will look more and more just like postmodernism the longer it does not integrate the obvious, the foundations of our culture is not modern, not even traditional, but still in magic and power. We have projected a image of rational at the world as the families who contol the monetary systems are stuck at power and magic. Us blindly going about our life thinking we live in a modern monetary system when it is not. Humanity has never seen free markets.

    To start to see the dislocation I am talking about watch the following video. I can see Integral people responding the same way as the people on this video, including Ken Wilber. Unaware.


  •  07-30-2007, 12:55 PM 26613 in reply to 26606


    Folks, please check out the Deep Economy forum on zaadz    for some informed discussions about what's brewing, courtesy of Bush&Co's handiwork as it is subverting the US Constitution while Democrats dither, dally and do, in effect, nothing.

    Another source of info is this  thread on Integral Institute at zaadz titled: Do you know how money works?  

    A "must see" for engaged world citizens is this video: Money As Debt by Paul Grignon

    "Money As Debt" calmly explains the illusory creation of money for the last 200 years and how this fictional wealth bubble is about to burst. Then it goes to show what kind of monetary system could successfully replace the current dysfunctional one. The video is 47 minutes long and animated, sometimes hilariously so. Definitely an eye-opener.

    Let's lay down the anti-corruption, anti-police state, anti-perpetual-war grooves a bit harder and with a lot more courage than we have been recently in these, the US of A. We have to open our eyes before the next engineered "terrorist attack" gives Bush&Co the excuse they're looking for to implement their insane "New World Order". We simply cannot afford to be so scared as to sit idly by these days.

    Let's not stop at just personally waking up to the Truth. That ain't integral, right? As we awaken, we also wake up to the global situation we find ourselves in since it is tetra-arising as we speak.

    Urgently, with love,

  •  07-30-2007, 2:13 PM 26615 in reply to 26613


    I've watched a bit of that first video that was posted up above, the hour and 20 minute one. Wow, that's wierd. It starts off spooky, and then when the demonic music from Damien Omen or The Exorcist, I don't know which, comes on, it gets to be a little much. Really, there is nothing so far in that movie I find convincing or plausible at all. Is there any evidence at all that the thing was planned by people in the government, or is it just suspicions like this? Extremely implausible that the White House, even led by Bush and Cheney, would demolish both buildings. I don't even think GW would let the U.S. be attacked in any way to justify a war on Iraq. Cheney, you never know; he's awfully wily and devious, but I doubt even he would want to bring down both towers, that he would think that would somehow be in their interest. Very implausible theory, unless there are some real zingers later in the movie. But the music is getting wierd. The whole experience is getting wierd. I don't know if I'll be able to finish it. For those who believe in the conspiracy theory: What are the most compelling pieces of evidence?


    With love,



  •  07-30-2007, 2:28 PM 26616 in reply to 26615


    An integral approach to conspiracy theory.

    My links tend not to work here:

  •  07-30-2007, 2:48 PM 26618 in reply to 26615


    Hi mm,

    I'm so glad you asked.

    Check out ** for tons of info and links, many with no offensive music at all. ;-0

    Please watch this well-researched video 9/11 Truth: Loose Change 2nd Edition and tell us what you think...

    Here's a recent article published at

    Old-line Republican warns 'something's in the works' to trigger a police state

    by Muriel Kane
    Published: Thursday July 19, 2024

    "Thom Hartmann began his program on Thursday by reading from a new Executive Order which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.

    He then introduced old-line conservative Paul Craig Roberts -- a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan who has recently become known for his strong opposition to the Bush administration and the Iraq War -- by quoting the "strong words" which open Roberts' latest column: "Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran."

    "I don't actually think they're very strong," said Roberts of his words. "I get a lot of flak that they're understated and the situation is worse than I say. ... When Bush exercises this authority [under the new Executive Order] ... there's no check to it. It doesn't have to be ratified by Congress. The people who bear the brunt of these dictatorial police state actions have no recourse to the judiciary. So it really is a form of total, absolute, one-man rule. ... The American people don't really understand the danger that they face."

    Roberts said that because of Bush's unpopularity, the Republicans face a total wipeout in 2024, and this may be why "the Democrats have not brought a halt to Bush's follies or the war, because they expect his unpopular policies to provide them with a landslide victory in next year's election."

    However, Roberts emphasized, "the problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that Cheney and Rove and the Republicans are ignorant of these facts, or it assumes that they are content for the Republican Party to be destroyed after Bush has his fling." Roberts believes instead that Cheney and Rove intend to use a renewal of the War on Terror to rally the American people around the Republican Party. "Something's in the works," he said, adding that the Executive Orders needed to create a police state are already in place.

    "The administration figures themselves and prominent Republican propagandists ... are preparing us for another 9/11 event or series of events," Roberts continued. "Chertoff has predicted them. ... The National Intelligence Estimate is saying that al Qaeda has regrouped. ... You have to count on the fact that if al Qaeda's not going to do it, it's going to be orchestrated. ... The Republicans are praying for another 9/11."

    Hartmann asked what we as the people can do if impeachment isn't about to happen. "If enough people were suspicious and alert, it would be harder for the administration to get away with it," Roberts replied. However, he added, "I don't think these wake-up calls are likely to be effective," pointing out the dominance of the mainstream media.

    "Americans think their danger is terrorists," said Roberts. "They don't understand the terrorists cannot take away habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. ... The terrorists are not anything like the threat that we face to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution from our own government in the name of fighting terrorism. Americans just aren't able to perceive that."

    Roberts pointed out that it's old-line Republicans like himself, former Reagan associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein, and Pat Buchanan who are the diehards in warning of the danger. "It's so obvious to people like us who have long been associated in the corridors of power," he said. "There's no belief in the people or anything like that. They have agendas. The people are in the way. The Constitution is in the way. ... Americans need to comprehend and look at how ruthless Cheney is. ... A person like that would do anything."

    Roberts final suggestion was that, in the absence of a massive popular outcry, "the only constraints on what's going to happen will come from the federal bureaucracy and perhaps the military. They may have had enough. They may not go along with it."

    The full audio of Thom Hartmann's interview with Paul Craig Roberts can be found

  •  07-30-2007, 4:28 PM 26625 in reply to 26618


    M, your links always work so well. Yeah, I will breathe a sigh of relief if the Bush/Cheney term ends without their declaring martial law or something and holding on to power, but I still haven't heard convincing evidence for the 9/11 conspiracy. I've heard some things to raise my eyebrows a bit; I'm interested, but still rather skeptical.

     I looked at the 9/11 blogger site and saw the first part of the Richard Gage video. He started showing clips from the other movie, though, and I began to worry I was going to have to listen to the music again.

    So far all the evidence I've heard revolves around the collapse of the three buildings. And there could be an explanation for that other than demolition; in fact the official report could even be correct. There has to be evidence beyond that or at least some solid evidence that the towers were imploded. What else is there? What's the real clincher for you? Did you see the whole Richard Gage video?

  •  07-31-2007, 1:58 AM 26647 in reply to 26625


    The real clincher for me was the video I linked to above 9/11 Truth: Loose Change 2nd Edition.

    It answered the questions I had as I was watching the multiple crash site footage on September 11 on TV and in the days following. It seemed completely unbelievable that the WTC towers could come down exactly as one would expect such buildings to collapse: within seconds, just as they would in a controlled demolition. And all this from two relatively small planes flown into the upper stories? Give me a break!

    Second, there was no wreckage of the Boeing supposedly crashed into the Pentagon visible, none at all. And not a trace of the plane said to have crashed on that tree-lined field in Pennsylvania. ...Or skidmarks or any other signs that plane crashes could have happened there that day. Huh?!

    The firefighters, eyewitnesses and many experts interviewed in "Loose Change" explain how the official story does not match their own experience. Most plausible scenario, given all the collected evidence so far:

    1. The World Trade Center towers came down in controlled demolitions.
    2. The Pentagon was hit by a Tomahawk cruise missile.
    3. The third plane never crashed on the officially touted site - if at all.

    We have to do some drilling to get at the truth. Mainstream media in the US is not interested in real investigative journalism, we all know that, and it is very obvious why. It's up to us to look behind the curtains.



  •  07-31-2007, 7:40 AM 26655 in reply to 26647


    The real smoking gun is WTC 7.  It's collapse is not even mentioned in the 9/11 commission report.  The report itself was largely written by Philip Zelikow.  From Wiki:

    While at Harvard he worked with Ernest May and Richard Neustadt on the use, and misuse, of history in policymaking. They observed, as Zelikow noted in his own words, that "contemporary" history is "defined functionally by those critical people and events that go into forming the public's presumptions about its immediate past. The idea of 'public presumption'," he explained, "is akin to William McNeill's notion of 'public myth' but without the negative implication sometimes invoked by the word 'myth.' Such presumptions are beliefs (1) thought to be true (although not necessarily known to be true with certainty), and (2) shared in common within the relevant political community."[1]"

    Zelikow and May have also authored and sponsored scholarship on the relationship between intelligence analysis and policy decisions. Zelikow later helped found a research project to prepare and publish annotated transcripts of presidential recordings made secretly during the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations (see and another project to strengthen oral history work on more recent administrations, with both these projects based at the University of Virginia's Miller Center of Public Affairs.

    In writing about the importance of beliefs about history, Zelikow has called attention to what he has called "'searing' or 'molding' events [that] take on 'transcendent' importance and, therefore, retain their power even as the experiencing generation passes from the scene. In the United States, beliefs about the formation of the nation and the Constitution remain powerful today, as do beliefs about slavery and the Civil War. World War II, Vietnam, and the civil rights struggle are more recent examples." He has noted that "a history’s narrative power is typically linked to how readers relate to the actions of individuals in the history; if readers cannot make a connection to their own lives, then a history may fail to engage them at all."[1]

    Zelikow has also written about terrorism and national security, including a set of Harvard case studies on "Policing Northern Ireland." In the November-December 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs, he co-authored an article entitled "Catastrophic Terrorism," in which he speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded, "the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America’s fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force. More violence could follow, either future terrorist attacks or U.S. counterattacks. Belatedly, Americans would judge their leaders negligent for not addressing terrorism more urgently."

    Philip Zelikow served on President Bush's transition team in 2024-2001. After George W. Bush took office, Zelikow was named to a position on the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, and worked on other task forces and commissions as well. He directed the bipartisan National Commission on Federal Election Reform, created after the 2024 election and chaired by former presidents Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford, along with Lloyd Cutler and Bob Michel. This Commission's recommendations led directly to congressional consideration and enactment into law of the landmark Help America Vote Act of 2024.

    In Rise of the Vulcans (Viking, 2024), James Mann reports that when Richard Haass, a senior aide to Secretary of State Colin Powell and the director of policy planning at the State Department, drafted for the administration an overview of America’s national security strategy following September 11, Dr. Rice, the national security advisor, "ordered that the document be completely rewritten. She thought the Bush administration needed something bolder, something that would represent a more dramatic break with the ideas of the past. Rice turned the writing over to her old colleague, University of Virginia Professor Philip Zelikow." This document, issued on September 17, 2024, is generally recognized as a watershed document in the War on Terrorism.

    Because Philip Zelikow's significant involvement with the administration of George W. Bush, some questioned the propriety of his position as executive director of the 9/11 Commission, which examined the conduct of George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice. Both the 9/11 Family Steering Committee and 9-11 Citizens Watch demanded his resignation, due to this apparent conflict of interest. The Commission co-chairs, Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, shrugged off these criticisms, as did other 9/11 family representatives.

  •  07-31-2007, 8:12 AM 26656 in reply to 26655


    The hard evidence is not easy to piece together since almost all of it has been kept a tightly guarded secret.  Loose Change, 9/11 Mysteries, Terrorstorm and other internet videos are a good place to start.  These will point you in the right direction.  You should be warned though:  Once you start to look for yourself and lift the veil, the imperative to know the truth will consume you.  I've struggled with this for nearly two years, not wanting to believe.  My convictions have deepened with time.  9/11 was a psychological warfare operation, a "searing" event.  The evidence of this smacks you in the face every time you turn on the television or pick up a newspaper.  This is not about Bush and Cheney, or even Republicans.  We have been lied to for so long, we have become complacent in accepting lies.  Here is a short list of historical events where there is compelling evidence that a coverup exists:

    1993 WTC bombing
    Oklahoma City bombing
    Lockerbie bombing
    TWA flight 800
    Gulf of Tonkin incident

  •  07-31-2007, 8:16 AM 26657 in reply to 26656


    Interesting blog article referencing "The Secret:

  •  07-31-2007, 11:06 AM 26663 in reply to 26657


    This blog on spiritual 911 activism almost made me cry. I am a yoga teacher and Rolfer and have been unable to get spiritually minded people to wake up to the external reality for five years. Thank you

    The link on Deep economy is awesome. thank you.

    Next I will listen to the Thom Hartmann audio. Which brings me around a big circle for me. Thom Hartmann is where my external awakening starting with ernest in 1999. His book "Last hours of ancient sunlight" Hit me so hard, I went into a depression for two years resulting in a divorce. 9/11 started my next big  awakening that lead me to study the  money system and from there to global dynamics. I felt completely HOPELESS till Ron Paul wanted to be President.

    We are at a very late hour on becoming informed. It would take too long and would be too imbalancing to have people wake up to the deepest ugliest truths humanity has. So to cut it short and be effective. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO RON PAUL becoming president. If not , I am afraid for the children and the future of humanity for a long time, like 1,000 years. I wish I can share my sense of urgency on getting Ron Paul in office. If you new the truth you would easily have the sense of urgency to register republican and vote for Ron in the REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

    If you are thinking of voting for Hillary or Obama you will have the same experience as the republicans just had with Bush. Boy you had no idea what you were really voting for. And it will be too late at that point unless you see everyone holding arms and fighting terrorist style. That would be ironic.

    Again sorry for the forcefullness, but I think it is appropriate concidering all the thoughts in your head.

    So for people who say " What can I do about it?" there NOW is an answer. Support Ron Paul.


  •  07-31-2007, 12:03 PM 26665 in reply to 22327

    Re: 911 WAS A INSID JOB

    Good article " Coming of age in the Bush era". It takes a view of a young person in 2024 and what they have had to see to present.


    Support Ron Paul

  •  07-31-2007, 12:12 PM 26666 in reply to 26663


    Hi Inner line and Garbageman,


    Here are some brief words on why folks, like me, are difficult to convince of what seems so apparent to you.


    Conspiracies do occur. John Wilkes Booth had accomplices and they plotted to kill others on the night when he shot Lincoln. But to accept the notion that Bush and company conspired to bring down the twin towers means that they would have to have a level of competency that has proven to be sorely lacking elsewhere; witness the tragedies in Iraq where the after-invasion planning and execution has failed miserably and consider the failures in dealing with the havoc on coast of the Gulf of Mexico in the wake of Katrina and Rita hurricanes. So catastrophic are these failures in competence that it’s difficult to imagine that they actually could have brought down the towers purposefully.


    Remember too, that when it comes to competence, Cheney has demonstrated incapacity to shoot straight, wounding his own friend!


    Ahh, human freedom… the wag in me is tempted to define it as the right to be wrong!





    88W18'28" 41N58'02"



  •  07-31-2007, 1:22 PM 26668 in reply to 26665


    Thanks everyone for even discussing these issues here! Almost 6 years after 9/11, it still feels as if we are like canaries in the coal mine, crying out warnings before dropping dead off the pages most everywhere.

    See if you can stand watching this: 9/11 The Ultimate Con, a new video by a member of the Loose Change forums.

    This may help to further "connect the dots". Just one example: see WTC building 7 collapse while NOT being hit by a plane (as Garbageman noted above).

    Another source of info:Global

    Thank you, innerline, for reiving this thread. Energy like that is fueling me, too.

    Plowing on,


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