Gene, you're my best friend! in case you didn't know

Mascha, , you have no idea how i luvs little Poziomkas (wild strawberry-like yummmy berry) ..

and then there is balder...what can i say about him? umm ...he said in his PM to me he has a long nose!

arthur? you have no idea.......i wasn't gona, but since you brought it up , the Serpent anounced itself once upon ... out of my mouth (he) hisssssssssssssssssssssssed .... bowl of prozak time? naaah, just Hail Mary....asif buzz-flying out of my ear , what sounded like a queen bee (wos  loud! - the first one especially)  wasn't weird enough!

Liz , Tamgoddess, n' others? ...Zenman!, my mon! where have u been!?.... what can i say, eh? we've been through thick and thin o'er the years .. don't yous' feel like a regular  familly by now? .. a familly, where bouncing  off the walls is quite encouraged even?

xo

h

As a courtesy to others, you may skip over this post, because this is where I will post my garbage and light-hearted stuff.

Maybe, just maybe, Helene might be autistic.  Who knows?  She doesn't seem to exhibit a rational adult facility too often.  Or, she may be one of those people whose brains are just wired differently.  As an unrelated example, a very few rare people do not expreience fear at all.  Nada. Zilch.  The male ones can become the most brutal wife beaters.  They just don't "get it."  No understandinf of fear.  No measurable physiological evidence of fear.  Not being able to identify fear on people's faces, etc...

And don't spam me with the "you don't have any evidence to make this allegation," because I'm joking, ok?

She might be a mastermind, cleverly taking IN apart as part of her diabolical plan.  She could be entirely methodical and rational in her posts.  She could be planting these unrelated posts to bog us down, hoping do drive us away in frustration.  She could be trying to give newcomers the impression that she's a typical representative of what's going on in here.  She might be working with religious extremists, looking to collect posts here to show the degraded levels of discussion we have here...

Bin Laden exhibits dysfunctional Red.  Now, what would happen if we were polite and nice to him?  He would gladly use you in his next rash of killings.  Either he lives, and he continues to try to murder people, or he is killed or put behind bars to stop that threat.  By loving Bin Laden, you won't be anything more than his enabler.  I don't think being nice to Helene will accomplish anything more.  Paradoxically, I don't think spanking her will do anything for her either, as she is very deep in denial of the disrespect and suffering she is creating.  However, I'd like to see the motivation for action be for the greater good of benefiting IN and it's members the most.  I am wary that many new members who are new to Ken's writings may be put off by her posts and turn away from AQAL and spirituality.

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myspace.com/zentaimusic

puleeeez ats!  i have a 'kundalini Shakti makes me do this!'  excuse!

yah, my brain might be different, yours would be too? if it had undergone the  same, painful at times, 'alteration exercises'.

i did teach myself how  to fly in dream-states as a kid - why? because i sooo wanted to fly like the birds!

and speaking of bin laden....now i'm not sure...was it he, or saddam. their  mental set-up is righteous in a 'hay-wire' way.....in bardo/subtle that kind of  rage-fury paralized me sensless one time..

a very vivid  image of one who wanted to smote me out of existence (looking directly at me) - as real as it gets!  fear moment..i stood frozen-defensless...didn't even had the wits  to call out for help..then, in mid-leap (he was on a balcony-type thing)  he exploded in a huge ball of fire.

 

Although I think that comparing Helene to Bin Landen is a bit unfair…  I get the point that you are trying to make Ats.

As far as being put off by her posts, not at all. Sometimes they are a bit comical, insightful, and at times I have no clue what she is talking about :-). Truthfully, any community that discusses spirituality and the like are going to attract, well…. flakey people!!  Whether you are or not Helene, I do not know, but your posts are perceived that way.  I have encountered this before and usually, if appropriate I just ignore it. I think that we can still engage in an active discussion even if we are slightly distracted. Just keep moving forward… focus on the task at hand.   

 Honestly though, I have been mainly put off by the over intellectualization that seems to occur from time to time on some threads.  This is my second time to IN. I joined a few years ago, but I did not find a place here. I was disappointed. To me it seemed as if I walked into a forum that belonged to the cool kids who were sitting on plush couches, smokin’ cloves and talking about how intelligent they were compared to everyone else.  This probably is not the case and I am aware of that... But some threads have been a bit exclusionary and do not leave much room for diverse types communication, esp. for someone who is not as AQAL savvy  and does not have the time to write a tome!

This time my interaction has been a positive one, and thank you to those who have actively engaged me in the conversation. That is much appreciated.

my 2 cents.

Love,

Monica

It’s cool that the most controversial threads are the most engaging isn’t it?  Nothing like a good argument or social dilemma to engage our attention.  Seems to bring out the best and worst in us…

 

Here’s a ‘solution’ I’d like to see tried:  Add yet another forum to the Integral Naked section. Call it something like…Altitude Attitudes.  Where attendance is earned rather than paid for by subscription.  …Second tierians only admittance.  This would foster the second tier dialog space so many here aspire to and crave for, and also be a good experiment and proof that Spiral Dynamics, and Integral Theory in general really works.

 

The right to post there could be determined by nominations or sponsors, and/or competency tests, such as the much touted Integral Psychograph.  (I have yet to actually see the test itself).

 

And so that particular forum could be the altitude attractor for the rest of the merely green and lower participants to aspire to and learn to emulate.  The elite that shows the rest of us the way forward…

 

I suggest putting it at the top of the forums list, above The Frothy Edge, and the farthest away from The Seventh Circle.

 

 

BTW – I’d like to suggest that no one here can really know what goes on the in the heart and mind of the koan called Helene, but that guessing and projecting is most interesting and revealing of those that do so…and such a hoot to boot!!

 

Carry on you fine bunch of gone cats!

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HeartMind.us

This interesting Thread, invoking so many perspectives pertaining to a (perceived) problem and the ensuing problem solving perspectives, covers a lot of ground.

 

It invokes subjects that range from the purpose and ethics of the Forum along with the role of Forum leadership to the legitimacy of Helene’s intent.  It pushes buttons too.

 

One thing for sure, on IN Forums, Helene is singularly unique given the sheer volume and quirky content of her posts. 

 

I suppose that unless we know Helene personally and how she lives, we have only our best guesses about where she is really coming from.  There is the perspective that she is somehow a highly evolved, transcendental being wise woman (living in the “thinga-ma-jig of heavenly transcendental soul” as Helene would say) spouting pearls of crazy wisdom (perhaps as some form of antidote for the poor schleppers that still root around on the toilet bowl level of intellectual / cognitive inquiry within the pithier threads).  Another guess is that Helene has an inordinate amount of free time, craves attention, has studied a great deal in the realm of quasi-spiritual disciplines and spent time with a number of related groups yet maintains an unfocused, wandering and frenetic mind and has burned in on the Forum as a source of community and gratification for her considerable needs and as an outlet for her highly translational knowledge.  And then there is everything in between.

 

On one hand, she (apparently) provides insights for many that actually read what she writes and find a way to interpret the often cryptic writings to their benefit; and then there are the many for whom she clearly distracts from the continuity of good discussions (likened by one fellow-poster to a dog obsessively marking their property with urine).  Then again, there is the triggering she provides for many that can be used as helpful pointers to get at sticky internal wickets, etc, etc.

 

I personally find a great disrespect and degree of unconsciousness expressed by the content, quantity and placement of her ubiquitous posts.  And I don’t like the idea of discounting any person’s value by automatically resorting to the scroll bar when I see their name or closing my eyes to a lack of quality in a community I am participating with.  When her posts have at least some reference to the conversation at hand, I don’t see a problem in quality (though her comments may not resonate with me whatsoever).  When her posts have no theoretical or direct tie into the conversation then it does distract from quality, from my perspective. 

 

If there was a group sitting together with the intent of having a focused discussion on a subject, and there was a Helene there contributing freely along the lines of the free-form, stream-of-consciousness manner that seems to be her style, would she be invited back?  I suppose it would have much to do with the purpose of the discussion and the need for focus.

 

Obviously Helene is a special case on the IN Forum.  I don’t see any guidelines in place to provide a way to change the current situation.  In one way the Helene phenomena provides a good conversation, but at what point does it get to be wasting time to beat a dead horse?

 

Have there been others along the way that have ‘not been invited back’?

Mike

I would very much like the casual use of the phrase "witch hunt" and all such trigger-ish words to cease immediately. This is a discussion, not a witch hunt. There is so much emotional baggage with that term.  If you feel Helen is being treated unfairly, just say so in plain English without the drama and projection.

Liz

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Upgrade to ISC!
http://integralinstitute.org/public/static/multispirit.aspx
http://pods.gaia.com/ii

tamgoddess:

I would very much like the casual use of the phrase "witch hunt" and all such trigger-ish words to cease immediately. This is a discussion, not a witch hunt. There is so much emotional baggage with that term.  If you feel Helen is being treated unfairly, just say so in plain English without the drama and projection.

Liz

Done.

Namaste and thanks.

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Upgrade to ISC!
http://integralinstitute.org/public/static/multispirit.aspx
http://pods.gaia.com/ii

Monifaye, looks like your reply to MichaelD disappeared.
So I'll give it another shot.

Quote MichaelD:

Here’s a ‘solution’ I’d like to see tried: Add yet another forum to the Integral Naked section. Call it something like…Altitude Attitudes. Where attendance is earned rather than paid for by subscription. …Second tierians only admittance. This would foster the second tier dialog space so many here aspire to and crave for, and also be a good experiment and proof that Spiral Dynamics, and Integral Theory in general really works.

The right to post there could be determined by nominations or sponsors, and/or competency tests, such as the much touted Integral Psychograph. (I have yet to actually see the test itself).

And so that particular forum could be the altitude attractor for the rest of the merely green and lower participants to aspire to and learn to emulate. The elite that shows the rest of us the way forward…

You're kidding, right?

M

coppersun:

i have a second question to add to my first, let's see if either will get a response.

precisely how is it one person's fault that a thread dies?

I'll offer a possiblitys based on my experience. I log onto the Multiplex Community page. There before me are all the threads with most recent comments. I tend to visit this page several times a day when possible. If I see a post with the timestamp marked as "today" I am interested. If it says "yesterday" I am less interested. If the most recent post is from Helene or Arthur (sorry dude, can't take your pomposity as much as I can't take Helene's lunacy....by shadow recognition that must mean I somewhat consider myself a pompous lunatic), I am almost not interested at all, unless the thread is one I have been following, then I'll look to see if there is something other than the most recent post that is interesting.

Keith

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Peace. It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart. -unknown

Mascha:

Monifaye, looks like your reply to MichaelD disappeared. So I'll give it another shot.

Quote MichaelD: Here’s a ‘solution’ I’d like to see tried: Add yet another forum to the Integral Naked section. Call it something like…Altitude Attitudes. Where attendance is earned rather than paid for by subscription. …Second tierians only admittance. This would foster the second tier dialog space so many here aspire to and crave for, and also be a good experiment and proof that Spiral Dynamics, and Integral Theory in general really works. The right to post there could be determined by nominations or sponsors, and/or competency tests, such as the much touted Integral Psychograph. (I have yet to actually see the test itself). And so that particular forum could be the altitude attractor for the rest of the merely green and lower participants to aspire to and learn to emulate. The elite that shows the rest of us the way forward…

You're kidding, right? M

Yep

Tongue planted firmly in cheek on that one…

Anyone who knows me from the old days will know that a personal bugaboo is the elitism attendant upon integralism. I’ve decided to just have fun with it at this point…since it is actually rather amusing overall. Sorry if my humor is a bit too dry and obscure…

Still my suggestion is perfectly serious in the sense that I’d love to see such an elite forum in action. Just for the entertainment value alone…

But then this thread is quite entertaining too. I hope you all don’t take any of this too seriously. If you do, then my advice is to use the seriousness you feel around this sort of thing to be grist for the everlovin’ shadowmill… not much else can come of it IMO…

Been here done this…

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HeartMind.us

MichaelD:

Yep

Tongue planted firmly in cheek on that one…

 

 

where is that tongue in cheek smiley face when you need it, hehe

for years i've been looking for the sarcastic icon too, but with no luck.

did you ever think that helene might be the end result of what you aspire to evolve?

did you ever think that helene might be KW"s alter ego, that he uses to check out the board and clense his palate from all the dry mapmaking?

did you ever think that helene might be the mirror to use to see your shadow?

now, where are those damn smiley faces........

MichaelD:

I hope you all don’t take any of this too seriously. If you do, then my advice is to use the seriousness you feel around this sort of thing to be grist for the everlovin’ shadowmill… not much else can come of it IMO…

Been here done this…

Agreed.  Why I suggest that lightening up and being playful might help...

  (btw, doesn't that express tongue-in-cheek by winking?)

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'This is all the time you'll ever have'.
~ Dr Hannibal Lecter

What a brilliant post, Mike (mroark). We do have moderators, don't we? This is what moderators are for. Controversial posters who relentlessly antagonize a substantial body of the forum should be put to a vote, put on probation, or banned. The forum administrator needs to address this issue.